Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joey Hawkins

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was consensus to delete. Johnleemk | Talk 10:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Joey Hawkins

""Keep"". This guy is widely known in the mid-south. He is famous in high school footballLenwood 07:22, 4 December 2005 (UTC) Delete. I'm not entirely sure this is even remotely notable. He's been nominated for some obscure "Coach of the Year" award and hasn't even won it yet, which still wouldn't make him notable. See the page for yourself. JHMM13 08:52, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

• Again, speedy delete non-notable. --Aurochs (Talk | Block)
• Delete slowly. High school football coach albeit one with a good record. A Google search shows an American footballer and college basketballer who are more notable than Coach Hawkins see [1]. Capitalistroadster 09:29, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - definitely who he claims to be. [2], [3] and [4]. Notable person per google matches: 188 hits, using "Joey Hawkins" and "football" and "jackson", including this [5], this [6], this [7], this [8] and others. Don't be confused with "Joey Hawkins" the new NFL star - this is the coach. Consider a disambig as they both seem notable. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 09:35, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. What's your definition of notable? He's one of the best high school football coaches in The State of Mississippi. High school football is one of Mississippi's most beloved sports, and communities really rally around their teams. Hawkins is one of the best. Deleting this post would smack of elitism. —preceding unsigned comment by 199.111.188.213 (talk • contribs) 3:57 AM, 3 December 2005 (EDT)
  • Elitism? Is that the best defense you can come up with? This is an international encyclopedia, not a local register. Please take your "elitism is destroying the common man" rant to someone who believes illogical and poorly laid-out arguments. JHMM13 09:13, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
    • You haven't given a valid reason to delete the post. You're uncertain Hawkins "is even remotely notable", but you fail to articulate what is notable, at least for an entry on Wikipedia. Should an individual have minimum contacts in more than one state? —preceding unsigned comment by 199.111.188.213 (talk • contribs)
      • Perhaps if you could convince me that I should give a damn about Joey Hawkins, it might be worth keeping. --Aurochs (Talk | Block)
        • I suppose if I said I could care less about 85% of these entries, that wouldn't suffice. We can't all have common interests. But even people for fail to appreciate high school football can appreciate a man who is one of the best in his field. He's reached the pinnacle of his profession four of the last five seasons. Very few coaches can say the same. —preceding unsigned comment by 199.111.188.213 (talk • contribs)
          • BTW, you're mistaken on the sockpuppet reference. —preceding unsigned comment by 199.111.188.213 (talk • contribs)
          • Sorry, you have failed to convince me. Time to empty the chamberpot. And no, I'm not mistaken. Anonymous votes are sockpuppet votes, and do not count. --Aurochs (Talk | Block)
            • Whilst that might be your opinion, it is not actually the policy of wikipedia, see Wikipedia:sock puppet. Whilst a user is encouraged to create an account, they are not required to. Whilst a closing admin may choose to ignore suspected sock puppets, they are not required to. As the policy stands right now, an IP address can vote. If you think that this should be changed, your should comments in the sock puppet channel. As it stands, the current definition of sock puppet is someone who creates additional accounts to impersonate someone else. This is not the case here. This is merely someone who has yet to create an account. Please be nice to newbies and encourage their participation. And remember WP:AGF - assume good faith! Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 09:41, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

• The author who I assume is the anonymous voter has put a lot of work into this page. Unfortunately, it doesn't meet WP:BIO which is our guidelines to biographical entries. I would recommend a Geocities page or Google Base article see [9]. Unfortunately, while I am sure Coach Hawkins is highly respected in his home town, he doesn't meet our notability criteria. Capitalistroadster 09:33, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Capitalroadster, though we disagree, you've stated your opinion eloquently and referenced the guidelines. I'm glad to see snottiness is not the culture around here, but isolated to a few souls. I've made a an account for myself. Cheers. SnyGuy
    • Thanks. I assume that you are the author. Please sign yourself with 4 tildes (~~~~) at the end so that we know who you are. As you have already voted here, you can't vote again. It is unfortunate that a lot of people are suspicious of new users at present. I hope that you continue to contribute, and even if this is deleted, that you are not disheartened, and that you continue to try to have a go. Why not try to add to existing articles? It is a lot safer, and less likely to raise questions about you. Consider following redlinks and create articles that are requested to be created rather than creating your own, at least for a while. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 09:43, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Is it really necessary to make a separate section to accuse someone of sock puppetry? Sock puppetry is supposed to be when someone is impersonating someone else. I see no evidence of this. This is just someone who has yet to make an account. That's not sock puppetry. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 09:36, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

• Comment. I have deleted the header "Sockpuppet votes" since the accusation does not appear to be supported by the facts. Anonymous votes are not necessarily sockpuppets, and they definitely are not sockpuppets when there is only one of them. --Metropolitan90 16:32, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Agreed. Newbies != sockpuppets. I added a template I designed, {{afd-newbies}} to advise newcomers who may have been asked to come here that we have a consensus process, not a straight up-or-down vote. BTW, Delete, on the basis that this doesn't meet WP:BIO requirements. Firebug 16:39, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per roadster. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 17:52, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete I really like that this article does provice some newspaper references. It's a cut above most articles of its type, actually, but it's still basically an article about a high-school coach and doesn't meet WP:BIO. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:00, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, with extreme prejudice. --Agamemnon2 18:56, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, with respect for a good attempt. Don't bite the newbies. rodii 22:29, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• "Keep" In the whole scheme of Wikipedia... does one really think that having a single bio page on a pretty darn good HS Football coch will hurt? Get a life... keep the page.
• Weak Delete- Very well written article, but unfortunately fails WP:BIO though not by much. Reyk 00:58, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
• Weak Delete, also. It's not bad as this type goes. Although to think everyone well-known in Mississippi must have an article seems a bit peculiar logic. Daniel Rayford McGehee was a Mississippi Congressman for a decade, including a period during WWII, but there doesn't seem to be an article on him yet. Clifford Davis represented Tennessee, but was originally from Mississippi. He was also shot in the leg during the U.S. Capitol shooting incident (1954), but there is no article on him yet either. Still , to whoever the creator of it is, you should maybe keep this in some personal file in case this coach ever say gets a movie made about him or something that would warrant this.--T. Anthony 10:11, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
• Weak Keep; pretty well-done article about somebody who's somewhere near the edge of the boundary between notability and non-notability, and I prefer to err in the direction of inclusionism. *Dan T.* 16:50, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Emotions aside, this is a non-notable bio. Stifle 15:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
• Weak keep and dab; this is the kind of article which Wikipedia should definitely include some day. The question is when? Considering the recent work on Jackson Academy, and the detail of the article, I think we can keep this one. I do wish the contributors would also fix up Indianola, Mississippi, though. +sj + 13:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
• No vote, but this is a very well done article and I think that if we were at the point that [[User:Sj] thinks we should be at someday, I agree that this coach (with that many state championships) would be included. I am not sure that we'll ever be there and right now this doesn't fit our criteria, IMO. -- DS1953 00:13, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete nn figure, writing skill aside. Eusebeus 15:05, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as this is one of the best articles ever that never should've been written. I hope we never reach Sj's point, and keep high school coaches forever out of the encyclopedia. The Literate Engineer 02:49, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.