Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jewish supremacism

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:03, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish supremacism

First, there's no reason to believe that this is a genuine topic; as the article stands, at least, it's a personal essay. Secondly, it seems to be in part an attempt to circumvent the VfD deletion of "Jewish ethnocentrism". Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:41, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Comment. As soon as I'd placed this article on VfD, the creator (IlluSionS667 (talk • contribs)) moved the contents to "Jewish supremacy", and made the VfDed page a redirect. I've returned matters to their original state. His other edits have all been concerned with this topic, all immediately revertable, some vandalistic. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:58, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. I moved the contents to "Jewish supremacy", which was an already existing entry, with practically the same content. I decided that there was no need for duplicate entries. My supposed "vandalistic" edits, were merely the deletion of links that did not apply to the subject.(IlluSionS667 (talk • contribs))
    • However, removing the VfD notice from Jewish supremacism is indeed vandalism. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:42, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Presumably neologism coined for propaganda purposes. --Ian Pitchford 16:57, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. YAFN. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:42, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep You 19:20, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. original research, someone's opinion. mikka (t) 19:25, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete as Orignial Research. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:55, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment - this gets a lot of googles (7,000 odd)- mainly relating to anti-semitic literature peddling the old hateful 'World Jewish Conspiracy' theories. I'm wondering whether this 'theory' is notable in such circles. If it is, then perhaps it should be kept - but its origins in those circles needs clearly stated. No vote for now (I don't see any original research here). --Doc (?) 19:59, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • The text begins: "Jewish supremacism is the variety of ...". If you don't see a problem here, then try read more about difference between POV and fact. If one wants an article about a " 'theory' in some circles", the text should start, e.g., "Jewish supremacism is the term used in <some circles> to describe what they perceive as...". In any case, the article gives no reputable sources, hence original research. It does not matter that the term is all over google. It is not the job of wikipedian do describe something. His job is to report what is already described. mikka (t) 22:16, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • I grant you all of the above, the article (if it had been kept) would need drastic clean-up. My question was about the subject matter itself not its awful presentation. --Doc (?) 22:31, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep --Kurgan5000yearsbc 21:02, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)Kurgan5000yearsbc20:02, 11 Jun 2005
    • This user has made three edits: two in February 2005 (voting to keep "Jewish ethnocentrism") and this one. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:04, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Not notable. -- BD2412 talk 21:33, 2005 Jun 11 (UTC)
  • Comment This has been speedied by User:AndyL as 'neo-nazi propaganda'. Perhaps it should have been deleted (that seemed to be the emerging consensus) - but it seems to me a strange reason to speedy. POV is normally best adressed by 'clean-up' --Doc (?) 22:36, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment. That isn't in the list of speedy criteria. I'll restore and we'll continue with discussion. The term seems to be one used by David Duke; he wrote a book Jewish Supremacism: My Awakening to the Jewish Question. If I voted on this (I'm not voting, as it happens) I'd have to say keep and cleanup to describe the use of the term by neo-nazis like Duke. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 03:00, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • POV is not a speedy deletion criterion, but vandalism and recreation of deleted material is. Unless rewritten: delete, candidate for speedy deletion. - Mike Rosoft 07:33, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. It's clearly not vandalism. It could qualify for speedy if the same material was originally deleted according to WP:DP. Do you have a reference for an instance of such policy-led deletion in this case? If so I would support a properly labelled speedy. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:51, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete I agree with Tony Sidaway for the most part on this one, but I just dont see one term used by David Duke to be notable to merit its own page. At best, merge with the David Duke page? -CunningLinguist 12:31, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. As it stands, the article is no more notable than an article on "Bob supremacism" would be (that being the belief among a subset of people named Bob that they are superior to those with other names). If the article were rewritten to actually discuss the topic beyond slapping two words together and defining the result, I could understand it remaining. Perhaps the people who have voted to keep this article might take a crack at editing this before deletion and creating a NPOV article that achieves this. --Dachannien 16:01, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete — Unsubstantiated and probably just agitprop. — RJH 16:32, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep - See no reason to delete. We have Black supremacy and White supremacy.. The Jews are another race in which there lies a pocket of supremicists, it's no big deal to have an article on it. The phrase God's Chosen People sticks out for me right now. The article as it stands clearly needs to be expanded though. --Irishpunktom\talk 00:08, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment: A) Jews are not a "race." B) You don't know what "chosenness" means if you make that kind of a statememnt. --Leifern 17:19, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

*Keep This article should not be deleted. The Jewish Defense League is a good example of Jewish supremacy.--Gramaic 08:29, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete - Changed my mind. I agreed with Leifern's comment above.--Gramaic 07:40, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment This is libel, the JDL has no such views Kuratowski's Ghost 14:48, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. There is no significant group that believes "the jewish race is superior and should rule over other races". Even the Jewish Defense League does not say this.--Pharos 09:21, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. RK 17:58, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment: True enough, however a staggering number of antisemites believe "chosenness" means just exactly that. Tomer TALK 04:34, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Original research, obvious attempt to circumvent VfD on previously deleted Jewish ethnocentrism. Jayjg (talk) 04:03, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete this content without hesitation. If it really gets that many google hits tho, perhaps this should really be a #REDIRECT to Jews as a chosen people. Tomer TALK 04:30, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. I am not sure that there could not be a legitimate article on this topic. However, the current article is simply tautological. If someone can cite examples of actual Jewish supremacists, I would reconsider. However, my suspicion is that this is merely an anti-Semitic claim of the existence of an entirely imaginary ideology. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:48, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Original research, no refs. --Viriditas | Talk 04:51, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete because it looks like a Neo-Nazi inversion of their own own anti-Semitic hallucinations. IZAK 05:38, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • This is complicated. There is such a concept as "Jewish supremacy" - the idea that Jews believe themselves to be superior to other races. However, I've never heard of anyone other than anti-Zionist conspiracy theorists say that Jews wish to rule the world (and those folks tend to think that such domination has already been achieved). I highly doubt that even the minority of ethnocentric Jews who think they're better than everyone else want to rule over anything besides Israel. The world is, after all, rather a mess,and sternly believing that you're God's chosen for the next world makes this one seem unimportant by comparison. I'd say there should be an article on the peculiar nature of Jewish ethnocentrism, but the suggestion that Jews want to dominate other groups is hokum, so delete what's here now and start from scratch. -- BD2412 talk 06:15, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)
    • Comment. We don't need to delete, then. Just rewrite the article. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 12:13, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • D-E-L-E-T-E. POV fork. JFW | T@lk 07:00, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Original research. Indrian 08:01, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Per BD2412's convoluted logic. Jewish ethnocentrism covers the topic well. There's room for improvement, but this article isn't it. -Willmcw 08:32, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete - what Mel said. --Mrfixter 08:43, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete -anti semitic garbage. Also, some people who have made incredibly ignorant statements should first brush up on the subject before proposing to keep this bad excuse for an article.(Guy Montag 09:30, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC))
  • Delete - Used by almost no one except David Dukeites. --FCYTravis 09:32, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Troll. Mikeage 09:54, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete I've made too many comments on this type of issue. My opinion is clear. Evolver of Borg 20:49, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. If the alleged phenomenon is notable as such, substantiating evidence needs to be forthcoming. El_C 11:18, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Original research, and no evidence of Jewish supremacy (at least not in the same context as of White supremacy). Legitimate discussion of the Chosen People belief is covered in Jews as a chosen people. This article is unnecessary, and inherently POV. Impi 12:37, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Refers to an alleged phenomenon not attested in any legitimate source and appears to have been invented expressly for the purpose of misleading people into believing that such a phenomonon exists. Kuratowski's Ghost 14:40, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete - How many attempts have there been now to make an encyclopedia entry out of a canard? --Leifern 17:14, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete - A classic example of POV-pushing. gidonb 00:38, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Strong sense of déja vu here. SlimVirgin (talk) 02:43, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Almog 03:45, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete this Nazi filth. Neutralitytalk 03:50, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete and replace with redirect to Psychological projection#White_supremacist Gzuckier 04:38, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, agree with Gzuckier. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 09:08, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. -- Nahum 10:12, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, for the reasons given above by others. -- uriber 17:04, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
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