Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Helengrad

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep when combined with the merge votes, and you have to keep in order to merge. If anyone wants to merge, feel free. —Cleared as filed. 04:42, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Helengrad

This page is political bias, obviously created for last year's election LeftyG 02:17, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• Redirect to Wellington Ruby 02:28, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Good information and perceived "political bias" is not a valid reason to delete; Edit the article. -- JJay 02:38, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• I don't understand the question below. However, a quick check on newsbank shows the term has been in use for at least 6 years and is cited by major news organizations worldwide. From an October 1, 2005 AFP dispatch I get: New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark is known for taking control -- a reputation so strong that her first government was dubbed "Helengrad". -- JJay 03:06, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• Then the article should be re-written to reflect this fact, that her government is called Helengrad, rather than saying the city is called Helengrad. Ruby 03:46, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• See above where I said "Edit the article". -- JJay 10:59, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• Comment What you you call it when they imply the city is Soviet? Ruby 02:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• Comment The article itself does not imply the city is Soviet, the article says that political opponents of Helen Clark and the Labour Party have used the term to do so. NPOV - reporting what other people say.

• There are notable neologisms with articles such as Feminazi or Left Coast, but this one does not have much circulation. If you want, you can write a paragraph in the Wellington article about this term of endearment by the local conservatives. My home town of Vancouver, Washington is called "The Couve" as a perjorative, but that doesn't merit an article. Ruby 03:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• The term has plenty of circulation within New Zealand (not just by the "local conservatives" of Wellington), and is notable enough in its own right for an article, especially regarding its origins. "The Couve" isn't a neologism anyway - it's clearly an abbreviation of "Vancouver". If there were notable circumstances surrounding its origin or usage (like there are with Helengrad), then it would deserve an article.

• I'm living in NZ, and have never heard the term before. Sounds like a term of endearment by local conservatives to me... Ziggurat 20:55, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - First off, the name exists and has been a notable feature of New Zealand political life, notable enough in my opinion to have a place in Wikipedia (so I did something about it, providing informative external links). Second off, check the page history: this page was created after Election Day - so this page was "obviously created" to influence voters who had already cast their votes over a month prior. Third off, if you have an issue with the political neutrality of the article, then edit it yourself and bring it into line with NPOV. The existence of a politically charged term you may not happen to like is no justification for deletion. Darobsta 03:02, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Darobsta --NaconKantari e|t||c|m 03:31, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep this will be useful to people, and is not slander, it will be looked up, etc. etc., just basically, Keep --BakugekiNZ 03:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. If biased, throw up a {{NPOV}} tag or fix it. Though "it exists" is not a rationale for keeping an article, it seems notable enough to merit an article. -Rebelguys2 04:01, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep seems notable enough -- Astrokey44|talk 04:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC) Actually merge and redirect to Helen_Clark#Criticisms, it only gets 174 unique hits on google [1] -- Astrokey44|talk 05:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - this is a tough one. Big Easy redirects to New Orleans, Louisiana; City of Light redirects to Paris, but Big Apple has its own article. The only thing that prevents me from recommending a redirect is that the name is derogatory. Dbtfz (talk - contribs) 04:50, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, the term is known but it isn't worthy of an article. I'd say transwiki to Uncyclopedia but they already have a substantial article.-gadfium 05:00, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• I'll say keep as a notable term with demonstrated notable circumstances surrounding it. In New Zealand, Helengrad deletes yooouuu! Grandmasterka 05:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Seems neoglistic and one sided. Almost as im implying one side is angelic and the other is satanic. Seems heavily politically motivated as well. WP:NOT says that Wikipedia is not a Soapbox, and this seems like the picked and chosen bits of something else to strike out in a soapbox manner at something. Leyasu 12:09, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• Keep It is a notable enough subject to merit an entry.--Adam ^(talk) 16:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Redirect to Wellington, like "People's Republic of Berkeley" is mentioned as noteworthy in the article Berkeley, California Carlossuarez46 19:38, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - Redirecting would be POV as it would imply that "Helengrad" is a real term for Wellington and not slang. We have similar articles; Soviet Canuckistan, anyone? - Cuivienen 20:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Merge to criticisms of Helen Clark. Most websites and news reports that use the term ([2] in particular) refer to the Labour-coalition government and Helen Clark's administration of it specifically, not to Wellington as the article claims. There's no possibility of expansion, making the article too short to stand on its own. Ziggurat 20:55, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - IMO, this vote should not be about POV/NPOV. The term "Helengrad" is undoubtedly a POV term, but that doesn't mean that an NPOV article about it is impossible. If you perceive a bias in the article, then edit it and make it NPOV instead of voting for deletion. This vote should be about notability - whether the name Helengrad is notable enough to merit inclusion in Wikipedia. Darobsta 21:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Merge. Still not convinced it is notable enough for its own page. Merge into Helen Clark instead of delete. (yes, I know I nominated it for deletion, I can changed my mind)--LeftyG 22:26, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• merge into Helen Clark as above. term is used in wellington and by some more rabid antilabour people in some other parts of the country but its not really a very common term here in nz and ceratinly doiesnt need its own page. BL Lacertae - kiss the lizard 01:37, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, or at least try to give it some credibility. Where are the sources justifying the intro -- "Helengrad ......... has been alternatively applied to New Zealand, the capital city of Wellington and the Helen Clark government"? It can't be merged to all three. Moriori 21:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

• There are hundreds of articles that use the term. References are not a problem. -- JJay 22:29, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.