Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gtplanet (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep. The Land 20:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gtplanet

This article was deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gtplanet. Deletion review consensus was to undelete and immediately relist it here. Neutral. —Cryptic (talk) 21:26, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

• No vote Alexa is 111,355 but it has 82,977 forum users so if someone can demonstrate impact outside the forum then its keep per WP:WEB --Pboyd04 23:14, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I have pointed everything out I think makes a case for this article's inclusion in its Deletion Review. However, I will restate, for clarity:

• The site is not just a forum site, but a reference database for the Gran Turismo series of games, across platforms - Gran Turismo 2 on the PlayStation, Gran Turismo 3, Gran Turismo 4 and Gran Turismo Concept on the PlayStation 2 - including accurate car list databases (for all regions), track list databases, race list databases, prize car list databases, screenshot (mostly unique, provided by users) databases and video databases. There is also a user-editable fastest lap database for the games.
• The forum section of the site also contains up-to-date, and, as far as can be independantly verified, accurate information regarding the upcoming Tourist Trophy and Gran Turismo 5 for the PlayStation 3, including some of the first video footage from the game's makers of features to be seen in future games. The forum is not limited to Gran Turismo talk either, though it's fair to say that this is its focus.
• It can be argued - and I did - that Gran Turismo is the top-selling title (38 million units) on the top selling consoles (70 million and 80 million units) in the world. GTPlanet.net is, by the Alexa rankings, the most-visited site dedicated to Gran Turismo alone, netting an Alexa ranking five times higher than the official site (whose URL was included on a flyer inside the game box!). It can further be argued - and I did - that the method by which Alexa rankings are garnered (Spyware, or the Alexa toolbar) does not give an accurate picture when discussing popularity of computer technology-based sites, as users are more likely to be computer-savvy and less likely to have such software on their machine. I'm one of the top 25 posters at the site, and I know I don't have Alexa nestling in my system, so none of my page views are counted.
• In accordance with WP:WEB, the site owner was interviewed by RadioITG and the site was featured, albeit a while ago now, in Sport Compact Car magazine (for some reason) in May 2002. Though I appreciate that these aren't exactly major international headlines, they do qualify as "national press".
• I was asked, in the Deletion Review, if the site has influenced subsequent generations of the game. This is difficult - probably impossible - to prove. Game makers do not acknowledge outside sources of ideas, for fear of leaving themselves open to Intellectual Property lawsuits. Any instance of an idea or suggestion appearing on our forum then appearing in a further version of the games, while appearing highly coincidental, cannot be proven to be causal. However, it has been said that the game makers browse GT sites - and GTPlanet's Alexa ranking makes it the most visited. Again though, this cannot be said to be causal - merely coincidental.

Much of the information on GTPlanet.net is generated by users, verified by other users and then "borrowed" by other sites. An infamous case on the site was of a car wishlist for GT4. This was misinterpreted as a genuine confirmed car list for the game, and appeared on a Brazilian website, from which it made its way round the world of Gran Turismo, often reappearing on our forum, posted by new members with the phrase "GT4 Car List!" and a very familiar 800-line post...

Obviously, this can be counted as my vote to Keep the article (though it'd need amendment). Though this is an anonymous vote, I'm not logging into my Wikipedia account to make it as my username is the same on GTPlanet - I do not want this to appear as a conflict of interest, and seek no credit/blame for this article being kept or deleted.

• Keep AFDers know I'm one of the harshest people around about nuking forumcruft - but this is a rare exception. A well-argued, coherent case for undeletion was made and I think this site can be an encyclopedic topic. Media coverage within genre, highly notable game, apparent large userbase, etc. Meets WP:WEB's forum criteria. Give it a shot.FCYTravis 07:58, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per FCYTravis. Xoloz 20:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. -Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 09:59, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.