Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Great Neck Village School

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus to delete. NYT reference helps a lot. —Quarl ^(talk) 2007-03-07 08:56Z

[edit] Great Neck Village School

Great Neck Village School (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Unencylopedic, POV. Delete this and all associated images. RainingmySoul 20:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment This Afd was not properly listed, I have corrected it RyanPostlethwaite^{See the mess I've created or let's have banter} 22:05, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
• Weak Keep - notable allumni would make this school notable, but are the allumni themselves notable? I'm going to turn it into a stub however RyanPostlethwaite^{See the mess I've created or let's have banter} 21:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete as unsourced. Concerning the notable alumni: An actress who "will star" in an upcoming movie, a TV chef, and a "former intern"? I'm not sure they make the school notable by association. Huon 22:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletions. -- Noroton 22:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. With an enrollment of 40-50 students according to [1], this school does not merit an article unless it is historically significant in some way. The article is nearly empty anyway, except for the various lists and trivia. Rhobite 22:14, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Changed vote to keep due to NYT references. Rhobite 13:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep High schools are inherently notable, as I argue in my new, expanded essay here, but why is an intern on the Jon Stewart show notable? Is that item in the "Notable alumni" section a bit of vandalism or is the guy a character on Jon Stewart's show? Noroton 22:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. This article reads like a directory entry. There is nothing in the article to indicate that the school is in any way notable as required by WP:N. The notable alumni content would be best incorporated into an article on the village. Dahliarose 22:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per Noroton. Nicely written little article shows the school exists and fills its mission in a way beneficial to it community. Also seems to have some notable alums, which common sense says makes it notable. I would have checked this against WP:SCHOOL but someone has tagged that as "rejected" and nothing at the supposedly relevant guideline WP:ORG addresses schools. Edison 22:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete High school's are NOT inherently notable and i'm sick of hearing that argument. I also don't think having notable alumni means anything. This is a non-notable school. TJ Spyke 02:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

If editors keep nominating schools for deletion, the same arguments will be made.Noroton 03:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Your opinion that all high schools are notable is NOT policy or guideline, so it's not a valid arguement. Schools have to PROOVE why they are notable. TJ Spyke 04:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Do town articles have to prove notability? If not, why not? Noroton 05:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: News flash Take a look at the Alternative school article in Wikipedia and what do you see? A picture of Great Neck Village School, put there well before this deletion discussion. Is there anything particularly notable about the school that gets its picture on that page? Well, yes: It happens to be one of the oldest alternative schools in the United States, founded in 1970. Read the first few lines of the Alternative schools article. So here we have one of the oldest examples of the type. I'd say that's pretty notable. I added a new third paragraph to the article to reflect that. Also, alternative schools tend to be small by design, so I don't think that should be a criterion for deletion. Noroton 03:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this changes things. It indicates that we don't even have to merge--having provided a convenient informal-appearing picture, its N has been incorporated. delete DGG 03:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the civil tone. Really helps to keep the discussion from degenerating into a nasty argument. Noroton 05:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe this AfD will also bring some visibility to the contributions of User:209.177.21.6, who has added many dubious or unsourced statements to Great Neck school and other articles. She has said that she is a high school student there, and she was the one who added the 1970s text to alternative school. I am assuming she made up this "fact" on the spot, and chose this year because that was when the school was founded. Clearly we can't rely on this statement to conclude that Village School is one of the oldest alternative schools in the U.S. That claim would require some sort of scholarly reference. Rhobite 04:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I just found a pretty good reference at the Great Neck Public Schools web site ("The Village School, which was established in 1970, is one of the nation's oldest and most successful alternative high schools."). Just follow the link in the footnote and you'll get to the PDF file. Noroton 05:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Keep Village school is an important landmark in Great Neck and provides a small localized education for a smaller group of students. Alternative schools are always smaller then 'regular' schooling and would receive less publicity and less articles about it. If it was a significantly better school than Great Neck South High School then people would request to go there in greater numbers and it would be forced to become a 3rd main general ed high school in Great Neck, but it has a specific purpose and it does that purpose very well. MrMacMan 04:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep This is a notable alternative school. I've added a citation to an article in the NY Times about alternative schools that spends almost half of the article talking about this particular school. Crypticfirefly 05:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Cleanup isn't a cause for deletion. Just H^{editor review} 13:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Abstain. May just scrape over the notability barrier, but I'm not sure... May come back and review this opinion later. WMMartin 14:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Notable alternative school. --Masterpedia 18:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: Weird Changes Being Made Alright people... a IP user 209.177.21.6 has been making massive changes to this article, deleting most of it's content. The user is also trying to delete the previously mentioned image on alternative school (village school image). Actually they are deleting all the articles associated with Alternative education. Check it out. MrMacMan 21:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I want to point out that this user has been deleting massive amounts of said article here again. So please look back and see the page beforehand. MrMacMan 23:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. I think Village School should be deleted because there's nothing important about that school. It's never been rated in Newsweek Magazine's recent listing of "America's Best High Schools". I feel that Village School is like in a complete different universe than South or North. Village School have different rules...first the students are allowed to be disrespectful to their teachers...i.e. calling their teachers by their first names...that's messed up...as children we were always taught to call teachers by their last names. And now the VS can do it...The Great Neck School district is a hypocrite...they teach us as children to always call teachers by their last names...if we don't it's disrespectful. Village School has no problem for students to call their teachers by their first names. What is this school district teaching our children? (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

Perhaps you want to mention that you just copy and pasted that entire passage that you says argues against the Village school article? Tons of schools aren't on the 'America's best high schools' list. Possibly disrespecting teachers cannot be argued by you since you aren't a teacher. Saying 'that's messed up' isn't a valid argument. Also, your not signed in as a user, and while this doesn't mean your opinion doesn't count, the WP:AFD says that "Unregistered or new users are welcome to contribute to the discussion, but their recommendations may be discounted, especially if they seem to be made in bad faith (for example, if they misrepresent their reasons)." MrMacMan 02:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep The standing as one of the oldest of its type, coverage by the NYTimes, and presence of notable alumni all demonstrate notability. Alansohn 05:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. As a landmark school covered by the New York Times, this subject is notable, just like another contentious article up for deletion right now featured by the NY Times. Silensor 05:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Weak keep. Notability largely established by being the oldest of its type, coverage in a book, coverage in the NYT, and notable alumni (considering the school has only 50 students each year). In fact, I've convinced myself to a keep. -- Black Falcon 08:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.