Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gothcore (second nom)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gothcore (second nom)

Fixing corrupted nomination (attempt at second nom at the first nom's page). Below is the nominator's provided reasons for deletion, (cut from the previous debate before I restored it.)...

I've revived the deletion request for the following reasons:

1.) The article is largely POV that violates not only the NPOV policy but also the no original research policy and, to top it off, the talk page makes it clear that it is a vanity page for the original author. Essentially, the author is attempting to create a genre to promote his band.

2.) Subsequently, it has since become nothing but a magnet for vandalism. The valadity of the article is clearly disputed all over the relevant talk page. This seems to be pretty clear to most people who approach the subject who are familiar with the genres that are cited here as reference material. :bloodofox: 06:17, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

The previous debate (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gothcore), was declared a keep on 8 April 2005. Fixing corrupted nomination/no vote. -- Saberwyn - 07:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

• Delete: "Gothcore is an imaginary genre," 'nuff said. -- Thesquire (talk - contribs) 08:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
• 8K Google hits makes it notable enough for me. Keep. We remove POV and vandalism, but we don't remove articles because of them. (Otherwise George W Bush would be long gone!) Cut it back to a stub if that helps. GeorgeStepanek\^talk 09:19, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
  • George Bush (for good or bad) is an encyclopedic topic. A musical genre (and all this is according to the Wikipedia article and the inbound wikilinks) that is unsure of what it's origins are, claims minimal mainstream popularity, thinks it might just be a Metalcore with a different name, and appears to have no "WP:MUSIC-notable" bands as a part of the genre, combined with the "We're Goths / No you're not, you're poser-Goths" debate being held on the article page itself, does not inspire me with much hope for this topic in regards to encyclopedic-ness. Saberwyn - 10:50, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
    • No notable bands? What about A Fire Inside (AFI) which is identified as gothcore here? GeorgeStepanek\^talk 01:28, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
      • See response below. -- saberwyn
• Strong Delete The word 'gothcore' exists on the internet 8000 times perhaps. This article though, is a made up term, created as vanity and/or advertising for a Non notable small business web site. Obina 10:32, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Comment Many of the 8000 refer to a now vanished and unrelated Netherlands website.Obina 10:40, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per above reasons, particularly per Obina. Zunaid 11:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete yet another neologistic coining of foocore. Just zis  Guy, you know? ^[T]/_[C] AfD? 12:22, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, for reasons above. Evil Eye 12:32, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. I was considering nominating it myself. No real documented usage outside of the article (or if there is no contributor has been able to list it), trust me I've looked and asked (see the article's Talk page). Other issues that effect it (but shouldn't be considered reasons for deletion on their own) are the unabashadly POV reverts from both sides and the inconsistency of its definition. If anyone could find references to gothcore being an actual genre of music with a recognized fan base I'd be inclined to vote "keep" but as it stands now I'm forced to vote for its deletion. - DNewhall
  • See my comment above. GeorgeStepanek\^talk 01:28, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Term exists and needs explanation. -- JJay 03:31, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete unless verifiability is demonstrated. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 04:37, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Stop making up genres for the sake of it. Incognito 06:21, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
  • If this AfD results in a delete based on lack of verification for the genre, would it be an idea to remove Gothcore from the "Hardcore Punk" template? -- Saberwyn
    • Sounds right to me. :bloodofox: 19:29, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Just because AFI wants to create a new genre for themselves (which seems to be the only reason why the topic/term exists in the first place) doesn't mean that the genre exists, should be created, or has any sort of following outside of some fans of AFI. While one could argue that Goth music genre should have more distinctions, Wikipedia cannot and should not be used as a vehicle for the creation, designation, or promotion of this term (or any others, for that matter.) --mwazzap 07:51, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Actually, AFI has repeatedly said that they are not Goth related and have apparently denied being called "goth punk" so obviously your reasoning for deletion is untrue since AFI has no part in this (also see Saberwynd's google search for gothcore and AFI together returning nothing). - DNewhall

GeorgeStepanek,

The identification of 'A Fire Inside' as gothcore that you indicated occurs on what looks to me like a blog. According to A Fire Inside's wikiarticle, they are hardcore punk, an editor consensus established sometime around July-August 2005, after a series of edit wars (based on a comment on the talk page and a very brief browse of the edits in that timeframe.

A Google for "A Fire Inside" gothcore comes up with 29 unique out of 54 hits. Of these, we have two hots for the 'blog entry', a large series of Wiki-mirrors and Wiki-copyers, a scattering of other blogs, and a couple of forum postings where the poster appears to be unsure of the validity of the term gothcore. Googlesearching the http://www.afireinside.net/ domain for use of the word 'gothcore' came up nada for me.

Based on this, I believe that AFI, while notable, is not gothcore, and my previous comments still stand. Saberwyn -13:16, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• Fair call. I still believe that "gothcore" isn't just a term invented by the authors of this article, but you're right in that it does not appear to be widely used. I'm changing my vote to delete. GeorgeStepanek\^talk 20:26, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

discussion resumes

• Delete 100%. It is just one guy describing a fantasy genre that doesn't exist. - Deathrocker 02:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as a neologism, obviously with no printed references whatsoever. -- Parasti 18:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.