Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elsebeth Baumgartner (second nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Yanksox 18:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Elsebeth Baumgartner

Elsebeth Baumgartner (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - (View log)

Previous nominated for deletion in a lackluster debate. To quote from the original, "Article is about a non-notable crackpot who faces multiple charges of harassment and intimidation. I feel sorry for her, but she needs a shrink not jail time and a Wikipedia article." To which I can only add it lacks reliable sources -- the main source being a blog calling itself "The North Country Gazette", which is almost the entirety of the non-legal-notice "Google News" hits. This is, at best, a local story. Calton | Talk 06:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete or properly source and reference by end of this AfD Alf photoman 14:30, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete a sad case, but I'm not really seeing anything in there to base an encyclopedia article upon. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep (maybe) - I'm not a regular around here and I don't know all the policy details for whether or not to delete an article. The woman is notable (see the previous discussion on deletion and the mentions of Baumgartner in the media on the talk page) but I fear it will be difficult to write a high-quality article about her due to the lack of verifiable, credible sources. I wrote most of the text that is currently present in the article, and it was almost entirely based on the Cleveland Scene article (which apparantly is no longer online) - unfortunately, I couldn't find another source that didn't seem to be published by Baumgartner or her affiliates. BB 07:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• and the mentions of Baumgartner in the media on the talk page Except quantity does not equal quality (no matter what listing of hits from Lexis or wherever gets regurgitated), and the actually cited ones in the article lean heavily on a blog pretending to be a newspaper.
• difficult to write a high-quality article about her due to the lack of verifiable, credible sources Bingo. There's a reason for that. --Calton | Talk 09:03, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - this search would appear to indicate notability... Addhoc 18:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

  Comment all of those are court records and the single news/blog source discussed above. Can you explain your thinking more? GRBerry 20:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt. Firstly, quoting a previous version of an article isn't a valid deletion reason. Secondly, the article appears to be sourced - could you explain why you think all the non-legal sources currently used in the article are blogs? Addhoc 00:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

• Keep The nominator omits to mention that the article also uses an article from the Cleveland Scene. There is also a fairly extensive list of news articles about her at Talk:Elsebeth Baumgartner#Notability of Mrs. Baumgartner. Without looking them all up, I'm willing to bet that more than one of the 278 listed there meets our standards, as all are traditional media. GRBerry 01:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. The sources alluded to by GRBerry are generally unavailable for free online - you have to pay for archived news stories. However, I checked the Cleveland Plain Dealer archive [1], which gives small free abstracts, and the stories appear to be legitimate. It is primarily a local news story and the article needs clean-up - I share the concerns that the "North County Gazette" is not a reliable source - but it appears to meet WP:BIO.--Kubigula (talk) 17:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.