Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eloka Asokuh

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, note - this underlines how tricky a multiple listing can be. Unless subjects are identical (which does not describe a group of footballers from different clubs and countries) the results tend to be hard to read. This should not prejudice subsequent debates where single players from this nomination are relisted individually. For that reason I'll decline to place this result on the talk pages of all but the main nominee. Deizio talk 17:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eloka Asokuh

Eloka Asokuh (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Also nominating Jonathan Minnock, Shane Bradley, David Bell (footballer), Anthony Gorman, Matthew Crossan, Tom Mohan, Marc Mukendi, Fergal Harkin. All of these are footballers who play or have played for Finn Harps F.C., a non-professional Irish club. None of them have played at professional level. Oldelpaso 22:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• • Comment - "a non-professional Irish club" There are plenty of SEMI PROFESSIONAL clubs who are deemed notable. For example Shamrock Rovers and many of the Irish teams. As the Wikiproject on football says, create articles on football clubs of all nations. These articles are helpful to those in Ireland. Ryannus 19:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. Oldelpaso 23:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. HornetMike 00:06, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --Angelo 01:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete All per nom Akihabara 02:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Jonathan Minnock (debut against Derry City F.C. in 1995 proves top-flight appearance in the League of Ireland), keep David Bell (footballer) (played for St. Patrick's Athletic), keep Anthony Gorman (played for Linfield F.C., top-flight club in the Irish League) and keep Fergal Harkin (played for Leicester City FC). In fact, I am inclined to keep all because all have played in the first (before the club's relegation in 2005) or second tier in the League of Ireland, but if this fails, keep these players for the aforementioned reasons. --Pkchan 03:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all as they have all played in or are currently playing in the national League of Ireland. They all appear regularly on Irish television (TV3 (Ireland)), Highland Radio and in the national and local press. Especially keep the following:

• Marc Mukendi - is on loan from Derry City, who are a full-time club in the Premier Division. He has also represented Ireland at under-19 level.
• Fergal Harkin- currently plays in the Premier Division with Bohemian FC and previously played for Leicester City FC, whilst later representing Finn Harps in the Premier Division.
• Tom Mohan - played for both Finn Harps and Derry City FC in the Premier Division.
• Jonathan Minnock - spent a season at Shelbourne FC (of the Premier Division) and has also represented Finn Harps in the same division.
• Eloka Asokuh - represented his national team at youth level in the FIFA U-17 World Cup, which he also won, and played in the same side as Nwankwo Kanu.
• David Bell (footballer) and Anthony Gorman - for reasons stated above, and the fact that Gorman was the team's manager until a few weeks ago.

These examples undoubtedly demonstrate notability if simply playing in the First Division of the League of Ireland does not suffice, which would astonish me if it didn't. There are numerous Irish GAA players with articles as they are of notable character, yet they have never played professionally for their counties as the GAA intentionally remains as an amateur organisation in order to maintain the spirit or idea of players playing for the love of the game rather than for money.--HarpsBoy 07:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep all Articles are verifiable, and I can recall Finn Harps playing in the UEFA Cup, and were until recently in the top flight in Ireland. Catchpole 07:53, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep

The Wikiproject on football states, write articles on all notable players in each country. These players are deemed notable. Living in Ireland and fervently following the football season I know personally that these players are actual players and certainly meet the notability requirments. Again, people who nominate such articles are, for me the scourge of this site, possibly more so than Trolls. Ryannus 19:27, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Overlooking the personal attack, I should probably expand on my reasons for nomination. WP:BIO regards as notable "Sportspeople who have played in a fully professional league". As far as I am aware, the top division of the Football League of Ireland is not fully professional. Some of the bigger teams are professional, but the league as a whole is not fully professional. The notability of the clubs is not in question; this AfD is concerned solely with players. Media coverage regarding some of these players is mentioned above. If verifiable sources were cited within these articles to establish notability beyond doubt, then I would be happy to withdraw some or all of these nominations.

With regards to some points made by others above:

• Finn Harps have played in the UEFA Cup, but in the 1970s. None of these players have played in European competition as far as I have been able to ascertain.
• Fergal Harkin did not play make any appearances for the Leicester first team.
• Comparisons to Gaelic football are irrelevant, the best Irish football (soccer) players play professionally. Besides, WP:BIO makes specific provision for mainly amateur sports. Oldelpaso 18:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong keep: Wikipedia's test for notability states:

"Sportspeople/athletes/competitors who have played ... at the highest level in mainly amateur sports or other competitive activities that are themselves considered notable..."

Although the team of most of these players currently rests in the First Division, all of these players have been, or are, members of a team at the highest level of football in the Republic of Ireland - that is, the Premier Division of the League of Ireland (bar Anthony Gorman, who played for Linfield FC (Northern Irish football's biggest club) and Matthew Crossan as far as I'm aware). The activities are notable without a doubt. The players feature both on national Irish television and local radio regularly.

Furthermore:
Marc Mukendi, who is on loan at Finn Harps, is the member of Derry City F.C., a professional side in the Premier Division, and has representented Ireland at under-age level. He can be seen in the website of the FAI (ninth player from top).

It is hard to fathom how Eloka Asokuh's winning of the under-17 World Cup with Nigeria may be deemed non-notable.

I have a feeling that Fergal Harkin may have represented Bohemian FC in European competition, and possibly Tom Mohan a few seasons ago when he was with Derry City. Maybe somebody can confirm these as I'm not wholly sure.

Jonathan Minnock played with Shelbourne F.C., who are the top team in modern Irish football as far as achievements go. Possibly, he also represented them in Europe that season. This would need confirmation also.--Danny Invincible 00:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep as reasons given above ought to be sufficient. Regarding Fergal Harkin, he represented Bohemians in the UEFA Champions League qualifying stages gainst Rosenborg. See here for the Irish Examiner's report of that match.--Johnfullerton 00:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment I would also like to highlight the fact that WikiProject Football states in its goals:

Write articles ... on all notable football players in every country.

The term, "every country", obviously includes the Republic of Ireland and seeing as the vast majority of these players have played at the highest standard possible in the League of Ireland, their articles surely have a part to play in achieving the stated goal.--Danny Invincible 01:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

• Update Anthony Gorman was appointed as part of the coaching staff of Derry City FC on 17 December.--Danny Invincible 23:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep all Finn Harps is a semi-professional club which only recently played in the top level of Irish football. Removing references like this will help give the impression that all Irish football is played in England. Fergal Harkin is an active member of the first team squad of Bohemian FC, and one of the foremost wingers in Ireland. Proposing his article for deletion in particular reveals an alarming level of ignorance of the game, and in my view this should inform any decision. To be honest, I don't understand the motivation of the proposal to delete. Bohsnews 14:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)Bohsnews

• Comment I think it's time to remove the nomination. This process is entering its seventh day. Shouldn't it have been wrapped up a day or two ago?--Danny Invincible 04:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.