Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DoubleSign Astrology

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete (socks disregarded) · Katefan0^(scribble) 19:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DoubleSign Astrology

The creator of this article, WalterJKin (talk • contribs), is also mentioned in the article as the inventor of the "DoubleSign Compatibility Calculator" at doublesign.com. It seems that this is an article about a particular company or website rather than about a distinct branch of astrology (and the capital letters in "DoubleSign Astrology" indicate a proper name rather than a generic term). This company or website might not be sufficiently notable to warrant an article. Google gives confusing results: a number of hits, but possible use of multiple domain names by the same organization or syndicated content? Needs further investigation. -- Curps 06:37, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Note this Google Search for "DoubleSign Astrology". When I run the search for 100 hits per page, I get "Results 1 - 76 of about 4,910 for "DoubleSign Astrology", indicating a lot of mirrors (4910 pages, but only 76 distinct pages). Some pages indicate a registered trademark: "DoubleSign® Astrology".

Similarly, a Google search for "double sign astrology" gets only 31 distinct pages out of 551 pages. -- Curps 06:46, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Combining Chinese zodiac signs with Western ones? Come on, astrologers should be more inventive than that in their endless quest to tax the gullible. This isn't nearly as stylish as that Russian woman who tried to sue NASA for impacting a comet. . . Anville 12:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

• DO NOT DELETE, PLEASE

DoubleSign Astrology is a branch of Astrology Hey guys... I'm Walter J. Kin, who happened to be founder of DoubleSign.com which uses DoubleSign Astrology as its main basis for matching people. DoubleSign.com, by the way, has more than 55,000 registered members. But I'd rather talk about DoubleSign (or New) Astrology. It's not my invention and is very popular among readers. Inventor of DoubleSign Astrology Suzanne White published her first book "The New Astrology" in 1985 and this book (along with 3 others that discuss DoubleSigns) sold in millions in 15 languages. You can check www.SuzanneWhite.com and Yahoo News about her.

• • I did removed my name from the article if it seems to be unacceptable for any reason.

I also mentioned 5 other astrology experts, bestselling authors that wrote books about combined DoubleSign tradition in DoubleSign Astrology. As you can see on Google search for "DoubleSign" produces 14,600 results, search for Suzanne White, returns 38,000 pages. When I search for The New Astrology" I get 16,200 pages. Another search for phrase "New Astrology" returns 35,800 pages. In case it still seems as not enough to recognize DoubleSign Astrology as a branch - here are more Google results for this expression "Combination of Chinese and Western Astrology" returning 152,000 pages.

• Yes, DoubleSign is a registered trademark (in fact, there are 4 trademarks that contain word DoubleSign) - you can check it on US Patent and Trademark Office website

• "Suzanne White has written COSMOPOLITAN'S annual 50-page horoscope pamphlet in French each year for the past ten years. She has written columns for major publications in both the US and France and in the past few years, has regularly forecasted the future in Chinese Astrology for both Tarot.com and AOL.com."

Source SuzanneWhite.com

• "1986 THE NEW ASTROLOGY - first published in French as LA DOUBLE ASTROLOGIE by Robert Laffont Publishers Paris. In the same year, THE NEW ASTROLOGY was published by both St. Martins Press (USA) and Macmillan (London). This book still is a long time best seller. It sells over 20,000 per year in the US alone. THE NEW ASTROLOGY also exists and sells well in British English, French, German, Dutch, Spanish, Polish and Czech. This book's concept is unique. White blended Chinese Astrology with Western Astrology thus inventing 144 "NEW" astrological signs. (12 animal signs combined with 12 sun signs makes 144 "new" character types). It's amazingly accurate. Suzanne White actually created 144 NEW character types."

Source AstroSoftware.com

• DELETE, This is simply masked advertising to provide legitimacy to a contrivance. WP should not be used to legitimate such cruft. Dottore So 18:48, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete and 24-hr block the author for cluttering up the VfD page. ♥purplefeltangel ^(talk) ♥ ^(contribs) 19:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep - I found my husband according to DoubleSign Astrology and we are happy for more than 8 years
  • That's pretty good since, according to the article, DoubleSign is a compound word first used in 2000 to describe "The New Astrology". User:Zoe|^(talk) 23:02, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Keep - although the term DoubleSign pretty new, the DoubleSign Astrology books exist for many years. They call it "The New Astrology" or something else - but it's the same combination of Chinese and Western horoscopes and really good advice to choose a husband.

• delete This is an advertisement. The article contains next to no information, opaque allusions to celebrities and vague handwave towards related astrological systems. Note also, entry above, that an anonymous product endorsement is a poor reason to argue for inclusion in an encyclopedia. Pete.Hurd 21:28, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. This kind of commercialism is what gets the astrology a bad name. - BorgQueen 21:46, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, advertising, spam, vanity. User:Zoe|^(talk) 23:01, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per nom. See related AFD at DoubleSign -- PhilipO 23:27, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as advert, vanity, and unencyclopedic. MCB 07:12, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep but prune severely. Remove long list of celebrity signs, and commercial advertising. --MacRusgail 13:05, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. While I don't believe in anything to do with astrology, this appears to be verifiable (its existance, not its efficacy) and noteworthy. I attempted a cleanup, per MacRusgail's comments. --GraemeL ^(talk) 13:55, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

• Thank you for your support. Thank you for voices of support. Although I apparently had a bad start, constant work on the article which I intend to continue, hopefully will make it a useful and clean of advertisement piece that people can enjoy and benefit from. I took a liberty to paste back information about 144 celebrities and their DoubleSigns, which I think is very enetertaining - it took me long hours within many months to compile it - gathering information from respected sources and checking celebritys' signs against DoubleSign calculator. I totally agree with clean up that removes anything that is against Wikepedia policy, especially vanity and advertisement. I'm happy to continue to work on building Wikipedia knowledge base and appreciate your cooperation. --WalterJKin 14:56, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, WP:ISNOT a undiscriminate collection of information. The celebrity lists must go if the article wants to even have any chance at staying. Restrict that information to your website and keep the article about DoubleSign Astrology itself. I will not change my vote, but some people may if you do this. ♥purplefeltangel ^(talk) ♥ ^(contribs) 00:32, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment : Please notice the writer simply refuses the cleanup done by User:GraemeL and pasted back the celebrity signs for its entertainment value. My vote remains at Delete. --BorgQueen 15:08, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

• Move GraemeL's version seems a reasonable and encyclopedic article, but I'm extremely leary about keeping the article under its current name due to the inherent advertising value of using one trademark for one version of the basic idea in the article name when the Wikipedia article (and its clones) show up in search engines. Suggest moving to Chinese and Western astrology (or a better neutral name) and leaving DoubleSign Astrology as a redirect to the general article. Caerwine 02:32, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.