Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clayton High School

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP. Robert 03:42, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clayton High School

Non notable. Gtabary 22:27, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I suppose : end of AFD ? Gtabary 23:32, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Comment Wikipedia:Schools is not policy. It is not even a guideline. There is no policy that everything that "verifiably exists" is suitable for Wikipedia; on the contrary, WP:NOT notes explicitly "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of items of information. That something is 100% true does not mean it is suitable for inclusion in an encyclopedia." There is no consensus about schools. Comments in this AfD should comment directly on this particular article and should give specific reasons why this particular article should or should not be deleted. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:45, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Comment. Am a little confused now. To my opinion, indeed, a fantastic amount of schools article are just there because schools do exists (like the door of my house for instance, just come and verify it), not much point. Thanks for underlying this Wikipedia:Schools page is not policy nor guideline. I was a little too enthusiastic imagining that WP had a definitive (though bad) solution to this recurrent tiring school acnea. My mistake.
With a school article I always imagine naively that it got written because of something worth of interest. Anythinkg like "such and such labour union got started by who and who, which is now world famous", or "this foreground scientist invented in that year the dehydrated water" or just something... Not happening often though. Maybe I should list my primary, secondary and third level schools ? Gtabary 00:14, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, established schools are far above the level of "indiscriminate information". Kappa 00:15, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete another school article that would be speedied if it were about a person. Denni☯ 01:47, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
    • But schools aren't people. They are constituted by many people, and remain in a fixed place for a substantial period of time, developing an importance to the community and history that far exceeds the capacity of one person's lifetime. No one uses the argument that "if this village were a person..."; to make that argument of schools is comparably absurd. I still don't know if I really think they are notable, but that analogy is seriously flawed. Xoloz 06:57, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
      • It is not the slightest bit flawed. It is not the building which is so influential on the people who pass through it, it is the teachers who work within it. The school itself is just so much brick and drywall. Yet Mrs. Jones, who has been teaching thirty years, and has probably influenced over a thousand young lives, will never get an article here unless she sleeps with one of her students. I find it quite amusing how much importance you place on the role of the school in the community. As a former teacher, I can assure you that a school for most people is just a good place to leave their kids while they're at work. Most parents do not involve themselves at all in the goings-on of a school, and it is a real chore to find parents willing to come out and lend a hand. While there may be some ongoing attachment by high-school students to their alma mater, no such warm fuzzy feelings are felt by elementary school students after graduation. It was rare that I had students return to visit after they had moved on to grade seven. And even if all this was not the case, an article that says in its entirety that "XY School is in Armpit, Manitoba. It has 320 students and its colors are taupe and chartreuse" does nothing whatsoever to encapsulate the "importance to the community and history that far exceeds the capacity of one person's lifetime". In fact, it cheapens the school from a shaper of student lives to a historical post-it note. And if this is all that can be said about a school, maybe its influence really wasn't so great after all. As for the comparison of villages to people, I don't recall making that analogy, and in fact, a village is not a school. People live in villages much longer than they attend a school, and in many places in the world, they may spend their whole lives there. People also tend to participate more in village or town goings-on than they do school goings-on, even if it's nothing more than shopping and doing the laundry. Finally, I have never voted on principle against school articles. However, I expect a school article to do what every other article in Wikipedia is expected to do: say something. The vast majority of these school substubs stand open-mouthed and drooling, and should be put to a quick death before they bring on the ridicule they deserve. Denni☯ 23:55, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep a worthwhile article about a high school. --rob 02:11, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Generic, non-encyclopedic. Gamaliel 02:47, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Let's engage in some more "concensus-building"--Nicodemus75 03:35, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
    • OK. Which wiki project is the discussion at? AfD is not the place for the discussion. Vegaswikian 06:48, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
      • Agreed. Continually nominating schools for AfD, which will inevitably survive the process is no way to have a "discussion"--Nicodemus75 18:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep verifiable and NPOV information of a school. Reasoning at Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep. Need of expansion is not a valid reason to delete. Unfocused 03:42, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Expand if not Delete High School Stub --JAranda | yeah 03:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep and allow to grow. 20+ school articles are added a day. We will eventually have an article on every school in the developed English speaking world. They do not get deleted. Nominating them for deletion is pointless and causes unproductive rancour so please don't nominate any more. CalJW 05:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • keep per CalJW. Xoloz 06:08, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, as per Wikipedia:Schools. --Merovingian (t) (c) 06:49, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Ho hum. Schools at AfD. I wonder why they bother. --Apyule 08:11, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. -- DS1953 14:39, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete all public schools. Gazpacho 16:39, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep as per Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep. Silensor 18:41, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • keep please we add 20 school articles a day to wikipedia and never delete them so can we stop listing these now Yuckfoo 19:25, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
    • No, I'm afraid we can't. As long as the balance of votes runs roughly fifty-fifty in favor of/opposed to deleting schools, there is no consensus, and it behooves those who believe these articles have no place in Wikipedia to keep trying. Just because they are not deleted does not mean we are obliged to stop trying; they are not deleted because a no-consensus vote defaults to a keep. Therefore, it is much, much easier to get an article kept than it is to get one deleted. Please do not feel so morally superior because your keep votes appear to be what is saving these articles. It's not - it's how the system works that is saving them. Denni☯ 00:01, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
      • The thing is though, the balance of votes doesn't normally end up at 50-50, it normally ends up with a fairly strong keep consensus. --Apyule 01:40, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
        • But do you consider that those that have argued for delete in the past have long ago lost interest in fighting against the 'keep at all costs' crowd? Those that condider them worthy of deletion, in general, have better things to do than fight for good school articles. What i really find amazing is that the communities that are represented in wikipedia rarely have a section on education. Those that create these stubs rarely link them to the relevant community or visa versa. If the keep crowd regard schools as the focal points of communitites why are they rarely mentioned in those articles?David D. (Talk) 03:28, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
          • Yes, I have considered it. Deletion on Wikipedia is decided by those who choose to participate. If people don't say anything, we can't take their views into account. I can speculate that the reason that some school articles aren't well integrated into Wikipedia is that they are written by students who are new here. --Apyule 05:23, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
            • With regard to students who are new. This relates to one of the strongest argument I have seen for keeping schools (i don't remember where i first saw it now). The argument goes that a new contributor may feel comfortable writing about their school etc. It effectively gives them an immediate niche to experiment on creating articles, investigating the world of categories and templates. Even if these early contributions are less than ideal, if these contributors become more confident and contribute to more interesting articles then wikipedia definitely wins. David D. (Talk) 05:41, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Not from what I've seen, and I've voted on a lot of them. For what it's worth, Delete this schoolcruft!!! Ryan Norton T | @ | C 08:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep — Whomever keeps nominating these valid High School articles apparently isn't checking the results. Anyway, I vote to keep all High School and up unless non-notability is strongly demonstrated. :) — RJH 19:50, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep as per rob. Carioca 06:39, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Week keep this one, on the basis of whatlinksthere and its age, and the fact that it's a secondary school not a primary school. Some alumni would be nice though as proof that it's good. Dunc|☺ 22:14, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.
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