Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Celtic Alliance of America

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

I love laura!!!!!'Bold text'Bold text The result was Delete. Nonnotable. El_C 08:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Celtic Alliance of America

Apparent self-promotion of a very small group that does not seem to have done anything particularly noteworthy to date. QuartierLatin1968 18:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Article makes no assertation of notability --Maelnuneb (Talk) 19:30, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, as User:Maelnuneb. Demiurge 21:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
• One, the article makes no assertion of notability whatsoever. Two, much of the text has been copied and pasted from the group's website. Three, there are no Celtic political prisoners held captive by the UK. Put it all together and you get delete. Picaroon9288 21:35, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete 1. Non-notable organisation that has achieved nothing. 2. The general cut and paste nature of the article seems in itself to make it a clear case of advertising by the group, I've maked this article for copyvio before, but it somehow managed to survive 3. Very POV and potentially misleading article, I don't think it does Wikipedia any favours to promote this groupMammal4 08:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC) -Keep I've changed my mind here, now I think that it should probably stay but needs to be extensively rewritten to remove ambiguity as per my previous comment below Mammal4 06:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment I think most people agree that the claims from this group (Cornish political prisoners, occupying forces in Wales etc) are farcical, however if these are the views of the group then it is acceptable to report them, but this should be done in a neutral style, which this article does not (i.e statistics for murders in Cornwall by loyalist death squads (0) with a reference) Any intelligent person reading it can then make up their own mind what type of group this is. Mammal4 08:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep This article is as noteworthy as thousands of other Wikipedia articles about small clubs or societies. Could it be that certain contributors here do not agree with the POV of this group and this is the reason they want it removed ? Gulval 19:48, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

  Just because we have thousands of other small, non-notable clubs and societies with articles doesn't mean they pass notability; nor does their existence mean that the Celtic Alliance of America passes notability. And before accusing the above supporters of deletion of pushing a POV, I'd like to suggest you read Wikipedia:Assume good faith. Picaroon9288 20:00, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

• Neutral. I certainly can't think of a reason why Wikipedia should have this article; the group's non-notable and may well have begun this article to increase its visibility and Google hit count. On the other hand, I don't see that we gain much by deleting it. As long as the article's written so as to be NPOV, it seems harmless to me. Q·L·1968 ☿ 17:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

  The reason we shouldn't have it is that this encyclopedia has notability guidelines. If the article fails notability, as you agree, then why shouldn't it be deleted? It is one less article to be cited as proof that non-notable organisations have articles on Wikipedia even if they shouldn't. Picaroon9288 18:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

  Mmmyes... Okay, the CAA is (as far as anyone can verify) a website and a discussion forum with a few dozen members. So it falls within the ambit of our notability guideline for web content, none of whose criteria the CAA meets (as far as I can tell). I'm changing my vote to delete, at least for now. Q·L·1968 ☿ 17:16, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - I need to know more hard facts about this group before I can make a judgment.--MacRusgail 16:55, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep The terminology used by the Celtic Alliance of America might be expressed somewhat in strong terms but essentially Cornwall is in effect a National Minority held as a subdued nation by the UK government. For those interested in respect of Cornwall a case has been presented to the European Court of Human Rights by members of the Cornish Stannary Parliament in respect of alleged violations of the European Convention of Human Rights and on the April, 13 2006 the Court acknowledged receipt thereof.Jowan99 13:26, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: user's third edit. Demiurge

Comment Thats all well and good and I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but the article does not talk about Cornwall as a subdued national minority, but uses phrases such as "loyalist death squads" and "political prisoners" with respect to Cornwall. Where are these political prisoners? I also don't remember any loyalist death squads when I was growing up, although Penzance can resemble a war torn state on a Saturday night ;) Mammal4 15:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I have visited the site in question and do not read the points you raise as you quote them, or specifically applying to Cornwall, but only if such a case were to exist that the CAA would highlight such actions. The ongoing contention over Cornwall within these pages does point to something being seriously wrong and depending upon which side of the fence one sits as to whether this is seen as pure evil [my position] or a nonsence [the Imperial view] -- TGG 16:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

"The CAA state that they are against "loyalist death squads", "racist neo-nazi groups", and what they refer to as "occupying British and French forces within Ireland, Scotland, Cornwall, Brittany, and Wales" quoted from the article itself but also simmilar wording on the website - I can't really see how this can be read any other way. If what you say is true then its just the wording that is wrong and not the sentiment.Mammal4 06:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep It presents another external view that potentially brings the iniquitous position of our Cornish Duchy into focus for the Cornish worldwide and anyone else genuinely interested in our Rights. The fact that Cornwall is included represents just another facet of what Philip Payton sub-titles his book "The making of modern Cornwall" as, Historical Experience and the Persistence of "Difference". It seems that the page needs to be rewritten to remove the cut & paste feel and, possibly, the organisation needs to be approached on that basis? -- TGG 16:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

  So, do you think that it is notable, or do you just like the group's point of view? I can't tell from your comment. Could you clarify? Picaroon9288 18:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I feel, personally, that the notable aspect rests in its particular focus of a Celtic Alliance at a time when we are being actively 'encouraged' to believe that the Celts are a myth! It is however, possibly, too early to judge whether or not it may achieve notability through successful activity -- TGG 19:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

• An even bigger problem than notability is verifiability. There is no source for the existence of this group other than its own website, and a few posts on web forums and bulletin boards. Demiurge 20:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

• Precisely. But notability ties right in with that fact; if it isn't known beyond its own website and a few web forums, how can it possibly be notable enough for an encyclopedia article? Those who say keep, I'm asking you. Picaroon9288 01:58, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep With some editing this page is as valid as others on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Celtic_nationalism Valera. 22:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment user's second edit. Demiurge 22:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
• What do you mean by "valid"? At <500 ghits, it isn't notable. Nor, as Demiurge said, is it verifiable. So I'm not sure what it is. Not "valid" by most definitions. Picaroon9288 01:58, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Maybe it doesn't need it's own entry but the way external links are also rejected I wouldn't suggest making this one somewhere either. It does have interesting information. Wikipedia is on the verge of becoming a creation of elitists - who want to make it another Britannica. What does it matter how many edits or contributions someone makes? ELITISTS! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.30.224.249 (talk • contribs) 01:19, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Its just a way of highlighting potential sock puppets which always crop up in these sorts of discussions, it isn't a reflection on the viewpoint itself. People tend to trust comments more if they can be sure that they aren't just one person with five accounts trying to make it look like there is a great deal of support for something, and an accounts activity is a way of guaging that Mammal4 06:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

• User's first, second, and third edits are to the above paragraph. Picaroon9288 01:58, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete No indication of notability, lacks sources of external coverage. Catchpole 09:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nn, pure and simple, Tewfik^Talk 16:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
• While a small group, they are gaining notability in a lot of Celtic FC and celtic culture websites, and should be gaining members in the medium to long term. Maybe list them on a "Small Orginisations" category? Members of the Sevan Stars group at Yahoo ( [Seven_Stars_Republican_Socialist_News@yahoogroups.com] )[1] Eiri Amach 21:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment: If an organization creates an article about itself on Wikipedia, and if the Wikipedia article is copied onto the many mirrors and spin-offs that use Wikipedia's content, then the organization's visibility and Google search ranking will rise. It's giving those organizations an unfair advantage, and frankly advertising isn't what Wikipedia is for. I'm not saying that's what's happened here, because I don't know for certain; but it wouldn't surprise me that the CAA has gained a higher profile since this article's been on WP. Q·L·1968 ☿ 23:47, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.