Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caschera

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep. DES ^(talk) 04:23, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Caschera

Likely hoax. The village of Broccostella is real, and Google comes up with geneaology websites listing Caschera as a surname attested in the village, but there is no evidence of lions or Julius Caesar. Pilatus 00:02, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

• Delete unless validation is found. - Andre Engels 10:53, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I am doing a report on the Providence of Frozinone. There are several references to the Cascheras, but they are all in Italian. Please see "Broccostella: I Fondatori". Please also note that they are only legandary. Italians are famous for having such creation/founding myths, ie Romulus and Remus and the she-wolf. 141.161.98.205 17:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)Don Tote141.161.98.205 17:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

• At the moment the sounds rather incongruous. Julius Caesar and his mythical ancestor Aeneas lived 1000 years apart. Someone's ancestry can be traced back to one or the other but not to either. And the idea that anyone (even a legendary figure) could be nursed by a lion in the densely populated Latium of 100 AD isn't believable. As I said, verifiable sources are needed. Pilatus 22:16, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

• • 141.161.92.132 23:43, 29 September 2005 (UTC)In fact, Caesar did claim that Aeneas was his ancestor, please see Plutarch's "Life of Caesar" and Suetonius's "Life of Caesar". Also, Latium was and is not "densely" populated even to this day. Most of it is rural mountainside with peasant villages scattered along the Appene mountain range. During this time period, the region was popluated with Lions until the Romans killed most of them off. Furthermore, the fact that they are legendary figures seems to escape some people. They were most likely not real, that is, these are figments of ones imagination not to be taken seriously. To say that it "isn't believable" would mean that one was ignoring the fact that they are legandary. I have managed to find a reference of The Caschera's in "Mythical and legendary narrative in Ovid's Fasti" by Paul Murgatroyd. A further study would have to be required in order to justly remove this entry. Also, the Fibreno River can be located to be an actual river found near the village. Thank you, Don Tote141.161.92.132 23:43, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

• • • Legends must be self-consistent, too, people like them to make sense. I know that Caesar traced his own ancestry back to Aeneas. Someone would trace back his own ancestry only to Caesar or to Aeneas, who lived 1000 years previously, but not to both. As far as the lions go, from what I know Latium was the heartland of the Roman empire and at that time extensively used for agriculture. There is no place for lions on cultivated land. Pilatus 18:30, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

• Keep on the basis of the Murgatroyd reference (which does exist, although I know nothing of its contents). Dlyons493 Talk 02:01, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment No mention of "caschera" in the Gutenberg text of the Fasti. Pilatus 18:30, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, this is just another bad faith nomination by User:Pilatus. Earthian 23:55, 30 September 2005 (UTC) User registered on September 27 and contributed to four articles and their AfDs Pilatus 17:30, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • For the sake of everything that is holy, stop complaining! Follow me around the Wiki if you wish, but stop whingeing! If you want to be constructive in this debate, do provide evidence (i.e. sources) that the Caschera were attested anywhere and that the assertions made in this article are true. Pilatus 00:39, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep For some reason or another Pilatus does not want this article on the wiki. It is a nice piece of history backed by real facts by real scholars, (Murgatroyd) yet Mr. Pilatus has set his heart on deleting it. This is unfortunate. 141.161.59.64 16:15, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.