Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bruce Woodcock

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There seems to be significant feeling that we should have an article on MMOGChart instead, but we don't yet. Mangojuice^talk 16:06, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bruce Woodcock

Non-notable. His major claim to fame is a self-published website of subscription numbers for MMOGs of questionable accuracy at best. Beyond that, he's been the profile of a fluff piece in Business Week six years ago that amounted to a "Hey, companies use the Web to defend their reputations" job. Article has been heavily edited by the subject, and its other main contributor, User:Elonka, also works in the games industry. Note also the fluff piece Woodcock wrote about her company and game on his website: [1] (Scroll down to the section on Simutronics). This is an obvious vanity article. Phil Sandifer 16:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, non-notable. SteveHopson 19:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Strong Keep . Bruce is known in the computer game industry. He is often quoted in mainstream press about the MMORPG industry. --AndyFinkenstadt 21:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • No, his compendium of subscription "statistics" gets quoted. Perhaps MMOGChart deserves an article. Its creator is not notable for amything other than his creation, however. Phil Sandifer 22:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Perhaps Dmitry Mendeleev's page should be deleted, as it is his development of the periodic tables based on the periodic law which he also created that is often quoted. --AndyFinkenstadt 01:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Are you sincerely comparing MMOGChart to the periodic table? Phil Sandifer 02:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
        • Apparently the <sarcasm> tag was stripped out in my edit. :) --AndyFinkenstadt 04:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
          • Far from it - Mendeleev created something that is astronomically more substantive than MMOGChart, and has been reprinted in so many media and forms that it is difficult to comprehend. Woodstock created a website that has been referenced in a handful of newspaper articles. Comparing the two is not sensible on any level. MMOGChart may meet the absolute minimum requirements for inclusion. Woodstock does not. Phil Sandifer 04:38, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I changed my vote to Strong Keep. The current article text is much more cited than many of our other articles. --AndyFinkenstadt 21:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been added to the list of CVG deletions. -- moe.RON ^{talk | done | doing} 17:02, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep/Redirect. If obscure football/soccer players can have their own biographical entries, I don't see why there's a particular problem with industry-specific biographies. Bruce is marginally well-known within the games industry, although I'm only giving weak support because of his very limited scope of contribution, as well as concerns about conflict of interest. As such, perhaps a redirect to an article on MMOGChart (his main contribution of note) would be more appropriate. --Alan Au 09:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Subject and User:Elonka appear to be promoting each other. James A. Stewart 02:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
  • — James A. Stewart (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
    • Just a new account. My other changes have been grammar/spelling/layout so I never bothered creating an account. Another note: the Austin Game Conference, references to which account for a large portion of the alleged notability of Woodcock, does not itself have a page. If there were a page about the Game Conference that linked to Woodcock's page, it would perhaps lend more notability to him. James A. Stewart 22:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• merge to the MMOGChart page. The references (except the businessweek article) are not about him but about his product. Its notable, but he isn't. Montco 02:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Multiple non-trivial references add up to meeting WP:BIO in my mind, even if narrowly so. Yamaguchi先生 05:02, 24 October 2006
  • Which of the BIO criteria does he meet, to your mind? Phil Sandifer 13:27, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - Not notable. -- Sensenmann 16:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Note: Sensenmann (talk • contribs) is a relatively new account with fewer than 25 edits, most of which are on AfDs and game-related matters. --Elonka 18:24, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. I do not know Woodcock on a personal level, but as I am a senior member of the IGDA (International Game Developers Association), I have met him briefly at various industry events. I can vouch that Woodcock is well-known within the MMORPG section of the game industry, as is confirmed by the multiple sources and references on the page. He definitely qualifies as notable per WP:BIO. --Elonka 18:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • What is his notability beyond creating the MMOGChart site? (To which, at a minimum, this should be redirected to) Phil Sandifer 23:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. Hi Elonka. Just to make sure you're up to speed, the issues of (perceived) vanity and conflict of interest are a big part of why this article was nominated for AfD. In short, the unfortunate authorship/editing is interfering with the debate on Bruce's actual notability. --Alan Au 02:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. his accomplishments might not be on par with Mendeleev, but thats not the criteria is it?...I know nothing about the game industry, but he's on the board of playnet, he's been asked by his industry to speak on a number of occations, and he's had articles written about him in regards to his industry...even if they were fluff pieces, joe six-pack doesn't get fluff pieces about him all that often... --Michael Lynn
• Delete - notability, looks like self promotion 4.18GB 03:26, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - I have been a journalist covering video games for eight years now. I've written for the New York Times, Rolling Stone, etc. I feel like I have a grasp on someone's relative weight in the game industry. Sir Bruce, Brice Woodcock changed the way we look at online multiplayer games. Video games don't enjoy much serious research or background or study. But Woodcock has been consistent in providing a steady stream of fantastically useful data that is the standard benchmark for talking about the growth of this social phenomenon. The page may have Vanity problems, so it should be cleaned up. But not deleted. This guy made a major contribution to the study of MMOGs. - JustinHall 07:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.