Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Boguslawa Cimoszko

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. I have had to discount comments from a number of new accounts, including comments which include the same formatting anomalies, which heavily suggests sockpuppetry. Even if the comments from these users are taken into account, there is a strong lack of relevant arguments. Factoring all of this in, the remaining relevant arguments from existing users seems to clearly indicate a consensus to delete. TigerShark 14:28, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boguslawa Cimoszko

Boguslawa Cimoszko (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Prod removed twice without the objections being addressed. Objections: Founding a company and being a relative to a notable person is not enough to be notable himself. Wikipedia is not a 'who is who'. Likely autobiography of not well known person. Update: Google search for Boguslawa Cimoszko and Bogusława Cimoszko reveals barely a 100 hits total, top ones are Wikipedia and its mirrors, and some hits refer certainly to other people (ex. [1]).  Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  17:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Strong Keep--John Krugger 10:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC) B.Cimoszko is a notable person for the following reasons: she was involved in the restructurings of post-communist Poland at the top level (working on behalf EBRD as their senior banker, and expanding the UBS operations in all of Eastern Europe), she is also one of (if not the only one) Polish woman to set up a consultancy of the calibre of CMS ProAlfa. On top of that, she is one of the most successful people that came out of Lodz, Poland.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by John Krugger (talk • contribs). Note: this is that user first and only contribution.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  20:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep--JavazXT 11:05, 3 February 2007 (UTC) Just coz she's no politician doesn't mean she isn't important. She played a major part in the Polish restructuring in the 90's as a senior banker from EBRD!! Read the report which is mentioned as reference. JavazXT —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JavazXT (talk • contribs).Note: this is that user third contribution.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  20:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  • In addition to my comment above, I would like to add my post from the"Talk" page for everyone to read my reasons why I believe this article should be kept:

I believe the notability criteria are met here still ( Wikipedia:Notability (people) ), referring to the 1st 2 points (as they are the only ones that apply here I believe).

"Keeping in mind that all articles on Wikipedia must meet our policy on verifiability using reliable sources, notability on Wikipedia for people is based on the following criteria. This is not intended to be an exclusionary list; just because someone doesn't fall into one of these categories doesn't mean an article on the person should automatically be deleted.:" - Obviously her not being a "mainstream" celebrity, such as a pop star, footballer, noble prize winning scientist etc, makes it more difficult for her to fit the criteria... "The person has been a primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.1" - EBRD publication referring to her as a Senior Banker at EBRD[2]- German language version & [3] - English language version. Article in the Swiss Chamber Poland referring to her company [4] "This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, magazine articles, books, scholarly papers, and television documentaries2 except for the following: Media reprints of the person's autobiography or self-promotional works.3 Works carrying merely trivial coverage, such as newspaper articles that just mention the person in passing, telephone directory listings, or simple records of births and deaths.4 " "The person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field (note that her specific field should be seen as a banker/consultant - JavazXT).5" - historical contribution #1 (economic restructuring of post-communist Poland): taking part in the restructuring of Poland in the 90s (as per the article: "...Bogusława Cimoszko decided to join the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) in London as a Senior Banker with responsibility over restructurings in Poland.") - historical contribution #2 (setting up of UBS's Easter European operations - UBS being one of the biggest international banks/investment banks)- as per the article:"...In 1995 she joined UBS in Switzerland with a view to help launch their Central and Eastern European business.". Both contributions verifiable on the following link provided as article reference: [5].--JavazXT 12:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


  • Delete all the article really makes clear is that she is a senior manager for large companies. That doesn't make her notable. What's the evidence that she played a major part in the Polish restructuring in the 90's as a senior banker? What's that even mean? Are there real verifiable accomplishments? What does a consultancy the calibre of CMS ProAlfa mean? What have they done that's notable?Montco 02:33, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep DON'T Delete This article shows that not only the politicians are responsible for changes in Poland since it broke away from the communist block. This is one of very few articles which mentions a Pole working on behalf of a multinational organisation (EBRD) who had a direct impact on bettering the situation in Eastern Europe, and directly facilitating a coutry's entry into the EU without being a politician. If the current form of the article is found unacceptable, I suggest rewriting it rather than deliting it. Euzebia Zuk—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Euzebia Zuk (talk • contribs).

—Euzebia Zuk (talk • contribs) has made few other edits outside this topic. - I am quite new to Wikipedia, but this is in fact just 1 out of 11 topics I have contributed to --Euzebia Zuk 12:51, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep Don't delete name well known in Lodz (recent interview in a daily for example) and a prominent Polish-American and Polish-Swiss. --Jack Jones 11 11:49, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

—Jack Jones 11 (talk • contribs) has made few other edits outside this topic. — fair enough I made only few other contributions - I'm a new kid on the block, but I definitely don't see myself as a "Single purpose account"!--Jack Jones 11 15:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep do not delete CMS ProAlfa set up by Cimoszko is a prominent consultancy --> see the American Chamber of Commerce in Poland website: [6] and the Swiss Chamber website: [7]. --Abu-Bakr69 00:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)User second contribution.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  21:50, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • weak keepdelete The only 3rd party sources provided--or proposed--are directories.DGG —disagree: the 3rd reference for example is an EBRD review/article - not a directory *European Bank for Reconstruction and Development[8] --Abu-Bakr69 01:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)02:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

—Abu-Bakr69 (talk • contribs) has made few ther edits outside this topic.- give me a chance! I only started on wiki a week or so ago. however I already contribute to 9 things--Abu-Bakr69 14:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

  • question so for those of us who don;t speak german, what's it say and what does it say that she did? keep in mind this is an EBRD publication so its not entirely neutral in terms of its opinion of their activities.Montco 02:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I can tell you what is out there which is [9] about 15 unique google hits, six of which are WP articles or mirror sites. So again, is there anything verifiable that can demonstrate notability? Montco 03:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

--> answer :) here is an article in Polish and English about CMS (Cimoszko's firm) in the Swiss Chamber of Commerce in Poland bulletin: [10]. Also here is the English language version of the EBRD publication used as a reference in the disputed article: [11]. I suppose these can prove notability, and are in English rather than German, so possibly understandable to a wider audience. I also found a mention of Cimoszko's previous firm on a Polish-language magazine website biznesspolska.pl: [pageno=69#baza_firm]--Abu-Bakr69 21:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete. Not notable. Appleseed (Talk) 04:24, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep notable in light of above evidence. --Urbanshakedown 21:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)User first and only contribution.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  21:50, 28 January 2007 (UTC) contributed to 3 other topics since then, by the way --Urbanshakedown 13:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Really? The Swiss chamber article is a description of the firm and the polish article is nothing more than a directory listing. So we have established at a business exists. Too bad that was never in question. The EBRD annual report says nothing about anything the subject has done. It says that she is a senior banker. That was never in question. The question is whether unbiased sources exist that say that the subject has done X or accomplished Y. Nothing has been presented. Montco 22:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

--> I believe so, also if you look at the firms listed in the Swiss Chamber, you soon realise that they are quite prominent indeed: [12]. e.g CMS Proalfa is preceeded on the list by Cigno Consulting, and itself preceeds Credit Suisse. The article about CMS listed in the Swiss Chamber has to be objective, as it isn't in the Swiss Chamber's interest to boast about some firm which is not even worth boasting about. Furthermore, I believe also Zoominfo (which states her involvement in e.g. Eastern European reconstruction, or talks about her setting up the East European operations of UBS) is objective/ unbiased as it is neither Cimoszko's (ex-)employer, or her own website, but an independent database of information about bankers and financiers. --Abu-Bakr69 16:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete. As per Piotrus and Montco. Visor 21:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. Balcer 00:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep as per the clause in WP:BIO which states that "just because someone doesn't fall into one of these categories doesn't mean an article on the person should automatically be deleted." --Boookabooo 10:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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