Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Mesa (Mod)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was No Consensus (defaults to keep). kingboyk 14:12, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black Mesa (Mod)

I {{prod}}ded this earlier with reasoning Unreleased mod = nonnotable. Plus, the article "Black Mesa: Source" was deleted (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Mesa: Source). Guess twice what happened - yes, an anon user removed the prod. So here it is. This is not, I think, reposting of actual deleted content, but I think the deletion debate is still pretty convincing. Please make this go away until the team actually releases something? wwwwolf (barks/growls) 09:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Non Notable. Crystal ballism. It might actually not even appear at all, as many of these projects go belly up, hope not in this case though. Very similar discusion to the AfD for IPod True Video.--Blue520 09:43, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --Fuzzie (talk) 13:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Edgar181 15:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --Terence Ong 16:49, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
• Extremely strong keep Anyone who's been watching this project will see that they've put up a great deal of work into this project. They've won the unreleased mod of the year award from ModDB and Valve themselves have even commented positively on the project. It may have shown up on Steam updates at some point, I'm not sure. It's gotten enough attention from Valve for Valve to request them to remove the "Source" from their name. It's a high profile modification for Half-Life 2. Any fan of HL2 would know that. I think this is one of the most notable mods - even before release - of HL2 there is (other than Dystopia and Garrysmod), and a great number of people anticipate it eagerly. The reason its not released yet is because this mod is taking a HUGE amount of work, they're basically re-making a game. They've posted a lot of their work and it's really fine work. I would also like to quote another user's comments on the previous debate for deletion: "Delete mainly because the link to the site doesn't work correctly. But I should point out that there are other mods (a Apocolypse Mod for BattleField 2 for example) that are on Wiki, but not slated for deletion. If there was evidence that this mod was further along, perhaps in some sort of beta release, I would be against deletion. However, there is really no available evidence that it is anywhere. Headrattle 23:50, 11 January 2006 (UTC)". If you check the website (the link is working now), they've put up a good amount of content. DrIdiot 18:59, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I can't actually look at the mod site because their HTML version says 'down for maintenance' - not exactly a promising sign. All I can go on is the article, which says there's no public beta - so what 'work' have they posted? A bunch of screenshots and the such is not worthy of an article - there's a whole heap of 'promising' mods which end up producing absolutely nothing in the end. --Fuzzie (talk) 19:20, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

It makes absolutely no sense to release a public beta before one is ready. It's gotten a good amount of public coverage: [1]. I'd also like to note that there are other non-released mods that have articles, and they're much less notable than BMS Iron Grip and The Wastes DrIdiot 19:54, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The Wastes seems to primarily be about a presumably-existing Half-Life mod. The other one seems like a deletion candidate, due to non-notability, but I know nothing about the scene, only what I read in the articles. --Fuzzie (talk) 10:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. "Black Mesa has won the Mod DB "Golden Spanner Award" for the most anticipated Half-Life 2 mod of 2005"... sounds like crystal ball to me. Come back when there's proof (i.e., a product) that this is not vaporware. --Kinu ^t/_c 19:42, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep; mods like this often get a lot of press before their official release, and are influential despite being in prerelease. I agree, it's borderline, though; if it stays vaporware, kill it. ProhibitOnions 21:45, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, covered in PC Gamer, as well as a number of other media outlets. It's well above the level of a bunch of guys who got together and decided to say they're making a mod. Article needs to be rewritten to clarify notability and media coverage though. P.S. PROD should not be put back on an article after being taken off; it should go straight to afd. Night Gyr 05:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, as mod in question is indeed 'notable'. It has garnered significant on- and off-line media attention, including strong statements of support from Valve. The scope and ambition are of considerable quality, as is the work already produced. Finally, it has won several awards including Mod of the Year 2005. -- Ken (non-user), 19:45 12 March 2006 (GMT)
• Delete as random game mod. Stifle 01:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and previous deletion (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Mesa: Source). Other articles of this type have been deleted for the same reason (ex: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fortress Forever). Evil saltine 01:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: The first deletion was made without an awareness of the media coverage. It only seemed nn because no one voting had heard of it before. Notice no mention of the articles in PC Gamer and CGW. Night Gyr 02:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - While FF was deleted, Iron Grip seemed to have won the Keep vote (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iron Grip) - Perhaps this page can be rewritten as opposed to deleted, in a similar fashion? It's a little advert-y at the moment, although I'm sure it could be reworked easily. RabidMonkey 02:21, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Black Mesa:Mod is also much more notable than Iron Grip in the Half-Life 2 modding community. DrIdiot 03:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Iron Grip was only kept by default due to no consensus. If you read the AfD, you'd note that half of the people were asking for deletion and the other half for merging. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 12:12, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment I rewrote that article to make it conform to a higher standard of quality, not to justify its content. The article was AfD for all the wrong reasons. I would have agreed to delete, had the AfD been for an insoluble excuse. - Kizzatp
• Keep - I don't know why it was deemed non-notable, when research shows that it's clearly had a fair share of media coverage. Also, It was remade mere days after it was deleted, which is a bit odd. The article itself is in need of attention, to show it's notability. - Zero1328 08:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
• Comment People, be cautious on keeping just because it has "media coverage". A lot of mods get "media coverage" even before publishing. (this thingy, an independently built game, got a whole article in Pelit and the last update to the web pages was in 2003!) Magazines print everything they find interesting and that they have space for. Granted, I have to say I'm a little bit more eager to keep this thing now that I've heard there's actual coverage, but I'm not changing the AfD motion just yet. I'm still saying this thing needs to be either deleted until the thing actually exists, or trimmed with chainsaw and put to some article about HL2 mods in general. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 15:45, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment BMS has also got Valve's attention. If BMS ends up not releasing anything after their target date with no excuse then I would vote to delete the article, but right now, at the present, it's in the spotlight. DrIdiot 00:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
• Extremely strong keep This is not just any "random mod", it has actually gotten a reasonable amount of media coverage from websites and gaming magazines (as far as mods go, it is actually quite a lot of coverage). It is still very much an active project, and won the Unreleased Mod Of The Year 2005 award from ModDB. There is also a separate page on Mods for Half-Life 2, which links to this page. This page is both important and notable, and should be kept. If the project were to be cancelled, however, I would be all for its deletion. Pmaddamsetti 18:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - I was the one who originally revamped (and changed the title of) the article after it was deleted, because I feel that the project is a notable one and should have a mention here. As an aside, I just want to thank everyone who continued adding to this article, including the pictures. Viewer 23:40, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - I would normally vote delete on things like this, because it is after all an article on an upcoming game mod and Wikipedia isn't a crystal ball. However, this is the most eminently notable upcoming mod, period. It's huge. And it has multiple verifiable media sources. Cyde Weys 23:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
• Extremely strong keep pending release date - Name a more notable, unreleased mod for any game? Noone can. If this article is deleted, to avoid hypocracy, any other unreleased game or modification article should be deleted on sight. As for 'crystal-ballism' this article has been brought to the attention of the Black Mesa team and they have edited this article and its predecessor, thus, we can verify its content as true. If Black Mesa fails to meet its release date, I would support an AfD. There has been no evidence to support a possible failure of the Black Mesa project. - Kizzatp
• Keep, because this game has been recieving a lot of positive press, and I agree with what Pmaddamsetti and DrIdiot say. -TonicBH 13:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• keep

This has been featured in quite a few mainstream video game magazines Deuxhero

• keep', I think this a reasonably detailed and important piece.
• Keep - Possibly the most notable and anticipated unreleased HL2 mod. Is literally an infinite amount more notable than the plethora of webcomics which exist on Wikipedia. - Hahnchen 20:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep If it's ever released it will be a notable mod and there has been some pretty good media coverage. Nigelthefish 16:39, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep This is definetely one of the more anticipated mods for Half Life 2, and is far more useful than articles detailing other games or mods. In the HL2 community it is most likely as notable, or even more notable, than Garry's Mod. ViceroyInterus 01:51, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep I see no reason why this page should be deleted. The Black Mesa Development Team will be involved with its re-writing and expansion in the near future.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.