Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bill Kelly

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page, if it exists; or after the end of this archived section. The result of the debate was Delete (Count was 4 delete, 1 keep, 3 votes by new accounts, and 14 anonymous votes) --Allen3 ^talk July 5, 2005 00:48 (UTC)

[edit] Bill Kelly and Working Man's Space Party

• Delete I listened to Dr. Kelly speak yesterday here in Shanghai on the Ren Min Bi exchange rate. His comments on the exchange rate between Marsmarks and Euros and Ren Min Bi's were too speculative though for a real scientist. Anyone with even a bachelor's degree in astrology would know more about interstellar economics than this Kelly guy. His credit repair book is very good though. It's been translated in Chinese and (illegal but cheap) copies can be purchased from any newspaper vendor if you ask for it. (unsigned vote by Shanghaiman)
• Keep I was at the speech together with Shanghaiman (whose real name is Richard Haworth) where Dr. Kelly shared also with us his fear of deletion. But Shanghai man is a Leninist extremist, curiously in synch with the ZOG fascists on this site. Why should anyone who offers a new and different opinion be deleted immediately? No matter how famous? According to the ambassador from Zimbabwe (oh, he doesn't exist either?) who introduced Dr. Kelly, he has been twice nominated for the Nobel Prize in Credit Repair. Is his earnest and courageous defense of the working man the reason? Is the democratic party in America -etacar and her sock puppets Haworth/sundry unsigned commentors- so threatened by looming exposure as nothing more than just another tool of the MAN? HayworthEtacarScimitar brings up a good point though. Support for Dr. Kelly is global because Dr. Kelly is global and the working man is global and space is global. In contrast, the deleter (save for ingratiating Shanghai man hoping to get an American visa to study astronomology at Baker) has all his IPs in just one corner of one measly 5% of the world population. Go ahead, I challenge you, delete the good Dr. But you can't delete his dream. The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die. (unsigned comment by 218.1.141.14, user's only edit)
• Keep It is not a hoax and I find that notion offensive. Granted the man is obscure but he's an authority in his field! Just because he's not among the conventional list of experts hints that he's above the fold! I'm not looking up the same guy that Joe Schmo looks up. Besides, I have met the man. The dog is a vicious beast. --Blue Spider (user's first edit --Etacar11 28 June 2005 04:40 (UTC)) (It is not the user's first edit, woman! It is the user's first edit under an actual Registered User name! The Blue Spider has editted many entries on Wikipedia, mostly those unaccepted by the Wikipedian ruling class, here!)

It is a hoax. Why else would it be on geocities. There is no such thing as a doctor of astrology and Bill Kelly is a common name; the guy who wrote that book and the bogus wmsp arent the same person. Delete this page now. (unsigned comment by 68.61.138.166)

These articles have common authorship and Talk:Bill Kelly confirms that the former runs the latter. Complete hoax or, at best, promotion of a non-notable crank. -- RHaworth 07:03, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

• These are wierd, because the book seems legitimate, but I'm going to say delete since we can't verify anything else in the article. (Also, Baker College does not offer a doctorate in astrology) --Scimitar 13:57, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Sure the book is legit. but its author has nothing to do with this rubbish - it's just a name this hoaxer found and has linked. -- RHaworth 09:21, 2005 Jun 24 (UTC)
• Delete, absolute nonsense jamesgibbon 20:48, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Delete self-promotion, of dubious veracity. I'm pretty sure you can't get a real degree in astrology anywhere. And how can a party be "paleo-leftist neo-fascist", I wonder? --Etacar11 23:24, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Dr. Kelly is internationally renowned in space and working man circles. He even has a website at http://www.geocities.com/workingmansspaceparty. Also see his interview at http://www.geocities.com/drbillkelly -- 195.14.179.33 [Vilnius]
  • The second url is currently an empty directory - let's see if something gets posted to re-inforce this silly hoax. -- RHaworth 09:21, 2005 Jun 24 (UTC)
  • I didn't know "international renown" was only recognized on geocities. Thanks for confirming that my original vote was correct, 195.14.179.33. --Scimitar 13:56, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Someone who claimed to have a PhD in astrology would be reviled by the space community. Unless you are talking about UFO people, which is something else entirely. But, anyway, I'm an astronomer, and never heard of him. (My 2 cents) --Etacar11 14:06, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC).

If you were an astronomer you would know that astrology is a very different academic discipline. (Unsigned comment by Nihaoma, user's only edit)

Want to see my diplomas? Ha! Yes, astrology IS different from astronomy, in that astronomy is a legitimate science, while astrology is considered to be a pseudoscience that has no basis in reality. I know of no legitimate educational institution in the world that offers a degree in astrology. Of course, why am I even replying to sockpuppets? I must be a masochist. --Etacar11 1 July 2005 16:52 (UTC)

• • Pseudoscience Mrs(?) Haworth/Etacar/Scimitar? Look at your own business you set up with ESA (European Space Agency) money (for proof for honest readers check etacar haworth's website haworthpressinc.com) and its 200 plus (?!) 'scientific' journals (all NOTABLE right?). For your convenience, here's a little sampling from the front page of your website for those trying to decide how serious they should take this well-funded lone posse (with creative differentiated names like etacar and scimitar) attacker of the esteemed Dr. William E. Kelly from Flint (you have his picture you can find his address, go look him up, read his publications in the Flint Times). Anyway, I am arguing with a paid killer posse. More important is for undecided people to understand who exactly is attacking the next/today's Einstein who is trying only to defend the working man (crucify the jew). So here is Mrs Etacar Haworth's front page merchandise,

The Psychospiritual Clinician's Handbook. Enhance your effectiveness with a psychospiritual approach to therapy!

Living Faithfully with Disappointment in the Church: A practical approach to address spiritually crippling disappointment with the church!

Straight Talk About Gays in the Workplace: Creating an Inclusive, Productive Environment for Everyone in Your Organization. Third Edition

Gay Catholic Priests and Clerical Sexual Misconduct: Breaking the Silence

that's the stuff you SELL mrs(?) etacar haworth as a so-called scholarly publisher, and in the same breath you dare talk about pseudo science?

• Keep This guy is real, he wrote a book, it's on Amazon. It's easy for people to mess up wiki, but they're not altering Amazon.com. Yes, it appears Dr. Kelly is crazy, but that doesn't mean we can't allow a true biography of a crazy person. (unsigned comment by 24.56.237.85)
• Delete Bill Kelly is a dirty jew. He works for the new world order and is planning to ban free speech in the year 2006 (READ 666) with his "National Socialist" Working Man's Space Party (READ: COMMUNIST-NAZI AXIS) STOP HIM NOW. DELETE THIS PAGE AND REMOVE MENTION WHEREVER YOU FIND IT. the name of the devil is already written on the walls, why write it on the internet?-me
  • (comment by 24.11.174.130)

• Keep Dr. William E. Kelly Jr. is a well known author and scholar. We mustn't censor his work. It is clear he exists. Just like how the entity has kept the reform party and constitution party out of the presidential debates, the powers that be are attempting to silence Dr. Kelly and the working man's space party. The first amendment guarentees us free speech. Please allow Dr. Kelly that right and allow him to stay on this dictionary. (unsigned vote by 65.173.32.210 [unknown location], who previously vandalized this page by removing votes --Etacar11 18:13, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC))

• Keep The self-proclaimed asttrology expert Etacar is in fact a well known Democratic Party activist on the pay roll of Shell Oil Corporation and the European Space Agency who seeks to defame the honorable Dr. William E. Kelly Jr. How does he know there is no degree is astology? Did he check every University on Earth (and beyond)? In Lithuania Dr. Kelly is known Dr. Villiam Edvard Kellios and has lectured here in Vilnius at the Department of Astrology at our University. All the corporations in the world can not stop Dr. Kelly from achieving his historic mission for the working man. ( unsigned comment by 81.16.227.227 [Vilnius])
  • Oh this is beyond hilarious. :) To begin with, I'm a woman. --Etacar11 19:07, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And to be a woman says it all? That is the end of the discussion? Now all you say is true? We must all bow down? If you were an astronomer (rather than a well-paid democratic party activist) how could you be a woman at the same time, huh? (unsigned comment by Nihaoma, whose only edits are here)

Oh, please. I was only commenting on the first ridiculous point in that comment. I'm a woman, I'm an astronomer, I am NOT in the pay of the democratic party. Or Shell. Or the ESA. There, happy? (I'm only replying here out of boredom, I know it's pointless). --Etacar11 1 July 2005 17:36 (UTC)

• • Of the IP addresses that the anon's have used, three are in Michigan and (marked above) two in Vilnius, Lithuania and one unknown. -- RHaworth 10:23, 2005 Jun 26 (UTC)
• Keep I am a bit torn on this issue but after the arguements I think I must vote to keep. We may disagree with his paleo leftist, neo fascist views but that doesnät mean he doesn't exist. As a Christian I personally disagree with Dr. Kelly's views on the existance of space and dinosaurs but just because I personally disagree with him doesn't mean he should be deleted. Another point I don't understand is why it matters if people vote from Lithuania or America. We Swedes view Lithuanians as a race of gypsies and Americans as fat slaves of israel yet we still can not deny their votes. Dr. Kelly is wrong but people must know about him. In the mean time I will pray that he realizes that space is an invention of satanists. (unsigned comment by 62.65.118.114 2005 June 28, 08:00 [Sweden])
  • But the voters to keep have advanced absolutely no proof of existence apart from one page in Russian. Lituania/America - I was hoping to find that all the votes to keep were from the same place. But I still think it is an hoax. Your last sentence about satanists seems to place you also among the ranks of cranks. -- RHaworth 2005 June 28 11:15 (UTC)
• Delete appears to be a hoax --nixie 28 June 2005 08:03 (UTC)
  • It is hard for the voters to give proof because many of these voters have met Dr. Kelly as he travels and lectures. I guess they could post pictures of him giving speeches, but I doubt that would sway you either. I guess since Dr. Kelly isn't covered in the mainstream, Jewish owned news media you don't consider him to be real. This is hogwash. Dr. Kelly is real and your attempts to delete him are hurting people. You see, Dr. Kelly is a hero to many people, especially small children. He may be an almost mythical character, like the Queen of England, but that doesn't mean that the children do not have a right to know of him. Think of the children. -Mistress Miller (unsigned vote/comment by 24.56.237.85)
• Keep Bill Kelly is most certainly a working man, a proponent of space travel, and a partier. What other arguments are needed? One may disagree with him, as I most certainly do, but the extreme anger displayed against the Space Party on this page only further demonstrates the controversial nature of the Space Party and the brewing anti-semitism against Dr. Kelly, his Space Party, and judaism. We shouldn't discriminate against others, and not suppress Dr. Kelly and the Space Party, no matter how much we disagree with it. Tolerance is a virtue. (unsigned vote by Benwetmore, user's first edit)
  • I'm confused. Is the "Jewish owned news media" trying to keep this guy down? Or are the forces of anti-semitism against him? Make up your mind, sockpuppets! --Etacar11 28 June 2005 15:44 (UTC)
• Keep He's a fringe lunatic but he does exist. I am from Newark but used to live in the Flint area where he was well known for his almost daily protests in front of the City Hall. I also am Jewish and regret the rampant anti-semitic remark appearing against Dr. Kelly. (unsigned vote by 12.30.108.58, user's first edit --Etacar11 28 June 2005 19:22 (UTC))
• Keep I am a graduate instructor at Michigan State University and I've had to deal with Bill Kelly and his followers trying to push their ridiculous propoganada on my students. I think his talk about space travel impacting economics is crazy, but he is real. I've seen the man, his article shouldn't be deleted, but it should probably mention that he doesn't know how to dress. (unsigned vote by 35.8.193.125, user's third edit --Etacar11 29 June 2005 14:56 (UTC))
  • This user vandalized my user page. --Etacar11 29 June 2005 16:10 (UTC)
• Keep Over the past three years I have gotten a chance to know Dr Kelly very well. I first met Dr. Kelly on a trip to Washington DC. as we attended a political conference in DC, we unfortunatly tuned into the news of the Columbia disaster. While this tragedy pushed many people away from space exploration, this made Dr Kelly work even harder to achieve his goal. As a graduate of a Big Ten university, and a student starting grad school in the fall, I realize that Dr. Kelly is a valueable resource to the Flint community, and an asset to any life he touches. (unsigned vote by 69.241.248.95, user's first edit. --Etacar11 29 June 2005 15:54 (UTC))
• Keep This guy really does exist, I have personally met him. He does not possess any college degree but is about to finish his Bachelor of ??? in Accountancy at the University of Michigan (flint campus). He is involved in politics, namely politics of the Republican Party of Michigan. I say keep the article but remove the rubbish. As for the radical political activism, it is true and I have seen it first-hand. --Mdkarazim 29 June 2005 16:05 (UTC)
  • Obviously this is not me. This vote is by Mdkarazim. --Etacar11 29 June 2005 16:10 (UTC)
    • My apologies, I corrected ths typo. --Mdkarazim 29 June 2006 16:15 (UTC)
      • Ok, but you still aren't signing correctly. Use four "~" characters. Right now the link on your name doesn't go to a user page (or where your user page would be if you had one). --Etacar11 29 June 2005 16:24 (UTC)
        • Again my apologies, the errors have been corrected. Mdkarazim 30 June 2005 00:45 (UTC)
          • Now I'm signing it correctly :) Mdkarazim 1 July 2005 20:46 (UTC)
• Comment. How is it that all you voters to keep cannot put up any verifiable evidence? Why is it left to me to point you at a picture of Bill Kelly and his dog. The Bill Kelly article has been toned down considerably so that my grounds for its deletion are now simply 'not notable'. another VfD related to this one is Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Michigan Coalition for Mandatory English. -- RHaworth 2005 June 29 20:55 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure what evidence you need. A copy of his birth certificate perhaps proving the location in which he was born? A copy of his enrolment status at the University of Michigan? He is involved in politics, and as for the rest, I don't see much evidence proving similar statements about other individuals in other articles. I know the guy, he exists and the information in the current version of the article is accurate. Mdkarazim 1 July 2005 20:41 (UTC)
• Keep Are we now going to delete the entry for Republican Party because Bill Kelly is a leader within it? Would that please Ectar? (unsigned vote by 24.11.80.136, only edits here and on the Coalition vfd)
  • No, I have nothing against the GOP. Some of my best friends are Republicans... ;) It's NOTABILITY that is the question here. And personally I don't think Bill Kelly is above the bar. --Etacar11 30 June 2005 23:33 (UTC)
  • Ectar, how can you say this man isn't notable? You have people posting from a dozen countries and several US states that have heard him speak and care about what he has to say. Is it up to you to say who is notable, or is it up to those who find him notable? Think about the children here, the little children care. - Mistress Miller
  • Einstein was a postal clerk while he developed and published his relativity theory. Would the 'Democratic' (as in GDR German 'Democratic' Republic I imagine) deny Einstein 8 lines in Wikipedia? Yes they would; as long as their sock puppett posse "oh please, nobody's paying me" attack dog Rhaworth/ecatar/scimitar is on the loose, no original thinker and no lone defender of gravity and time and space is safe. Question for Haworth: Are you related to obsequious deleter boy Richard in Shanghai?
• Keep Dr. Kelly works at the East Lansing Marriot and he hates Greeks girl Joey Varnaopolojs [1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.210.18.120 (talk • contribs) 06:13, July 2, 2005. user's second edit and modified on 06:25, July 2, 2005, user's fifth edit.
• Delete no accomplishments worth noting at this point in time and, to be honest, this all appears to be some semi-concerted effort directed at this small-time political figure -- although I can't tell if it is attempting to promote his cause or parody it. older≠wiser July 2, 2005 13:16 (UTC)
  • Would you call this a parody? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.11.80.136 (talk • contribs) 16:03, July 2, 2005.
• Remove Dr. Kelly is a pawn of jewish interests seeking to destroy the blood of the aryan peoples. IT IS TIME FOR A RACE WAR, STAND UP WHITE MAN AND PURGE THE JEWISH-COMMUNIST LIES FROM WIKIPEDIA. The admins agree, everyone agrees and is only afraid to say it. they are sick of kelly's bolshevik views polluting the white freedom-space that is wikipedia. when you look around you see the white page, it is obvious white men built wikipedia please keep it pure. The jew is a leech and will abuse wikipedia, spreading his lies. he latches on like a parasite, squeezing false fame for his degenerate lifestyle (READ: KELLY IS A PORNO-HOLIC ALCOHOLIC, RAT (READ: JEW) LOVING FREAK) - **Driving down the street in my Panzer tank!
  • Sittin’ drinkin’ Cris’ with my bitch Anne Frank!
  • And when I step into the club’s you know I’m steppin with style!
  • Raise my left hand, party people say “Heil!”

24.11.174.130 4 July 2005 07:28 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be placed on a related article talk page, if one exists; in an undeletion request, if it does not; or below this section.