Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Backgammon Chouette

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP - CrazyRussian talk/email 03:16, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Backgammon Chouette

Delete and Transwiki to wikibooks. WP:NOT an instruction manual. (Plus, the info came straight from a copyrighted website owned by the writer, though apparently he can waive the copyright, which is why {{db-copyvio}} was declined.) - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 15:45, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. There is no copyright issue here if the owner agrees to the GFDL licence, though he still needs to alter copyright info on his website. WP:NOT is relevant I suppose. Equendil Talk 16:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC) Update: Owner altered copyright info on his website, and released the page under GFDL. Equendil Talk 16:50, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete looks just like game rules —Mets501^talk 17:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

• I wanted to introduce my self I am the author of the backgammon chouette article and wanted to thank Crzrussian and Equendil for bringing all this information to my attention about copyvio and various other wikipedia facts that I needed to learn before answering to any of you guys. Well after listening to Equendil Talk and asking him a fair few questions I made some amendments to the site which now includes the GNU Free Documentation License. As far as it being a game manual that is also not a valid point, a chouette form of backgammon which is played socially, and the explanation tries to show what is it all about. You might also be able to debate weather any explanation of a game is a manual for it as well, well ofcourse you have history, important people, rules of the game but you will still have to give an idea of how to play the game in order to make it interesting for the user. As well as you have to assume that a person, whose looking for backgammon or chouettes on wikipedia, might want to learn what is the term as well as get a general idea of how backgammon or chouettes are played by reading rules and game forms of play. I hope I conveyed my thoughts in trying to explain why this article should be published in wikipedia and that the simple and short explanation on the backgammon article is not enough for someone who is trying to really figure out what is the chouette is all about.

Thanks for your time, Davidoff 17:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

• Transwiki and Edit. Though this is a well-written and exhaustive article, it falls under "rules for playing the game" and should be sent to wikibooks. However, a shorter article, demonstrating that the game is widespread and notable, would be a reasonable inclusion in Wikipedia. A history of the game and a short, general overview of gameplay and scoring, similar to articles on other games and sports, would be adequate in this article. A link from the revised Wikipedia article to the "rules" document on wikibooks (for readers of the article interested in playing the game) would satisfy Davidoff's concerns, above. Best, Docether 18:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC) (see below for revised)

• Shortening the article.I have no issue with making the article shorter and following Docether suggestions. I could have a shorter less elaborate version here and in wikibooks have a version that explains the play and goes over rules in more depth. if that would satisfy the various reviewers of the article i would get to this now and see your thoughts as time moves forward.Thanks Davidoff 02:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. Just giving a link to Wikibooks where this kind of articles would fit best : http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Games_bookshelf Equendil Talk 03:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• Updates. i have updated the article and made it shorter and supplied a link to wikibooks which i will be posting the complete article on soon http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Games_bookshelf as Equendil suggested. Also i am starting a backgammon book on wikibooks which will slowly become a manual for playing backgammon. I am happy to hear any remarks of the recent changes so I might improve on them if needed Davidoff 03:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

  Comment. A wikibook about Backgammon is plain great. Not all too sure what you mean above though, that "also" got me confused. The purpose of my link was mainly to make sure you had a link to wikibooks, since you are new to the whole wikimedia thing, and to show where such a wikibook should be listed, though I have no idea what's the procedure on Wikibooks to do so. By the way, you can link to wikibooks directly, for instance "[[b:Backgammon|Backgammon book]]" which displays like a regular wikipedia link : Backgammon book. See m:Help:Interwiki linking Equendil Talk 12:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

  Forgot to say: The tone of the article is a little too casual for wikipedia (I expect it's fine for wikibooks), in particular, addressing the reader with "you" is a no-no on wikipedia. Other than that, I think the content stripped of instructions is fine. Equendil Talk 12:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Game instructions were moved to wikibooks and original author is perfectly willing to address issues. Equendil Talk 12:23, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• Updates. I now have corrected the issue of the tone that the article took and now it is explained in the third person which is more profesional then addressing the reader as "you" thanks again to Equendil advise and comments. Looks to me that it is presented better then before by getting help from various wikipedians and working on their feedback. Thanks Davidoff 13:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep After transwiki and editing, looks pretty good to me. Another success without actually having to delete anything ... someone pinch me. Thanks all. -- Docether 13:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• Information. Hey Guys, I wanted to know when and if the box on the top of the article will be removed and who is allowed to remove it, that is if we agree that this is a good article to be kept here on wikipedia. I think that most of you agree that this article was changed to meet the requirements of wikipedia, as well as a Backgammon book that had started on wikibooks. so I think all in all this will benefit readers wanting to know information on backgammon in the long run, especially with the link to the backgammon book thanks to Equendil, which will direct people to add and edit the backgammon book that I have started. Talk | Davidoff 03:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.