Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Atlantic County Board of Chosen Freeholders

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge Atlantic County Board of Chosen Freeholders to Atlantic County, New Jersey - I've just redirected it as the target article actually contains more detail. No consensus on Sue Schilling and Frank Finnerty. Joe Kelly (Freeholder) is not subject to this AfD - the AfD tag added to his article did not correctly point to this AfD. Another editor 'corrected' it so it pointed to a separate nomination. That closed as "keep" on 12th August. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 16:19, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Atlantic County Board of Chosen Freeholders

This non-notable local government system is covered in the article for the municipality. It therefore does not need its own article. Erechtheus 23:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related pages because they are pages for non-notable local officeholders who fail WP:BIO and the proposed candidates and elections criteria for notability:

• Sue Schilling
• Joe Kelly (Freeholder)
• Frank Finnerty

Keep the Three Freeholders, Merge Atlantic County Board of Chosen Freeholders into Atlantic County, New Jersey - There needs to be far more work done for the individual Atlantic County's Freeholders to match the level achieved for the fifty-odd Freeholders covered elsewhere in the state of New Jersey, which have been created and maintained as part of WP:NJ, an effort to expand the scope and depth of information regarding the state. While these are not great articles at this point, there is ample, independent, verifiable information that meets all criteria of WP:BIO to justify retention of the articles. Furthermore, Wikipedia:Candidates and elections relates to those not yet in office. All of the individuals listed here currently serve on the Atlantic County Board of Chosen Freeholders, which performs all legislative and executive function for the County. As far as the Atlantic County Board of Chosen Freeholders article is concerend, there is nothing in that article that is not already added or should not be merged into Atlantic County, New Jersey. Alansohn 00:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• • Comment. There is no need for a Merge into the county article -- the information is present already. As to the freeholders in question, it is my understanding that holding a purely local office is not a basis for sufficient notability. If there are other reasons these individuals are notable, please include that information in the articles. Erechtheus 00:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete These are county offices, not state or national. Notability standards are not met. --DarkAudit 01:30, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: These articles are stubs. If there are specific criteria that are not being met, it would be helpful to all involved to specify what they are. Alansohn 01:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Reply These are county officeholders. Not an encyclopediac position. If the subjects don't have other accomplishments that rise to the level of WP:BIO, there's not much you can do to improve the article. --DarkAudit 13:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Reply - We need to have more information regarding your postition that county officeholders are not encylopediac. My concern is that in Wikipedia we use reliable sources, and don't rely on repetition of a statement or putting a word in italics to make it so. I have searched through the criteria of both WP:BIO and Wikipedia:Candidates and elections, and find no automatic exclusion criteria that would disallow county officeholders. As requested previously, can you please refer me to the specific standard you are using as justification that specifies that state or national offficeholders are encylopedic, but corresponding county officials are by definition not. I have searched through the criteria of both WP:BIO and Wikipedia:Candidates and elections, and find no automatic exclusion criteria that would disallow county officeholders. Alansohn 15:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
        • Reply From WP:BIO: 'Political figures holding international, national or statewide/provincewide office or members of a national, state or provincial legislature.' and 'Major local political figures who receive (or received) significant press coverage.' A county office fails the first part, and merely listing that the members of the board are members of the board fails the second. --68.69.152.140 17:14, 7 August 2006 (UTC) not signed in there... should be --DarkAudit 17:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and per DarkAudit. Organisation not notable except as part of something larger. By the same token, the individuals, by virtue of merely being the organisation's elected representatives, should not be considered notable. Ohconfucius
• Merge per Alansohn's suggestion --ZeWrestler ^Talk 17:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete the freeholders individual articles, they're really non-notable Merge the ACBOCF article into Atlantic County, NJ. Put their names in the ACNJ article, sure...if people want to know more about them, in all their mediocrity, then they can find it at the Atlantic County website. —ExplorerCDT 19:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep three, Merge one, per Alansohn. On its surface, the WP:BIO guideline seems to support delete. However, there is also a proposed guideline, Wikipedia:Candidates and elections, which seems to go beyond the current WP:BIO guideline. It states, "As a compromise between those who would keep all candidate articles and those who would delete all articles on yet-unelected candidates, this guideline states that articles on elections should be written before articles on individual candidates. Only if and when there is enough independent, verifiable information to write a non-stub article on a candidate should one be written." Well, if an article can be written about a candidate that satisfies these criteria, then surely by extension, an article can be written about the election winner, i.e., officeholder/incumbent. Although the proposed guideline seems to contemplate state-level elections, given the examples that are provided, the policy is still open to discussion and could be extended to county-level elections. Deleting articles in the absence of a clear policy or guideline is not a good idea, especially when said articles are part of a WikiProject that is committed to expanding them. Accurizer 20:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral: In the name of consistency, I'm not sure how county-level officeholders differ from schools. A quick browse through [Category:High schools in the United States] reveals that there are numerous schools listed that would fail nearly every test under WP:BIO, save the 100 year test; of survivors, many would pass the 100 year test solely because the actual structure is still standing and/or in use. Of course, other schools will probably be gone or unused, 30, 50, or 99 years from now. Finally, WP:SCH is seeking to upgrade many of these articles. High schools just don't seem encyclopedic to me. I would support standards around schools, but that would result in an awful lot of AfDs. --ishu 19:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.