Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anders Søvik

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete all. Although on individual opinions it was 3 to 6, two of the "keep" opinions were not well argued, as were two "deletes", and one "keep" was "very weak", so it's more like 0.5 to 4. I don't believe a relist would have brought many new arguments, but the generally high level of discussion in this AfD is commendable. The articles can be recreated, of course, if these people do get to play at a more professional level or become otherwise more notable. Sandstein 13:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anders Søvik

Anders Søvik (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

This is a nomination for Anders Søvik, Kjetil Berge, Arne Jensen, Espen Grina, Tom Erik Breive, Mostafa Abdellaoui, Fridtjof Seeberg, Simen Røine Johansen, Tom Erik Breive, Andreas Hagen, Tor Einar Leira, Sebastian Harung, Joar Harøy, Mounir El-Masrouri and Jo Andreas Gundersen, players for for Norwegian football team Skeid. For a similar AFD, see here.

Contrary to the beliefs of the article creator, these footballers do not play in a fully professional league. In other words they don't meet WP:BIO guidelines for sportspeople. I would clean up the articles of the team players who actually have played professionally, and whose professional league appearances are verifiable - alas I could see only one notable player in their squad. Punkmorten 09:43, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. ChrisTheDude 09:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Are Skeid really an amateur team? They played in the Norweigian First Division (the second level) until 2005, and will do so again from 2007. I find it rather hard to believe that they are not a professional club; at the very least, some of their best players could be contracted a professional basis. The Skeid article does not make this clear. Qwghlm 10:01, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
  • The guidelines state, though, that a player must play in a fully professional league. So even if some of these players have pro contracts with Skeid, they don't meet the guidelines unless the league Skeid are in is confirmed as fully professional. It's the same situation as Conference players in the UK - some are full-time professionals but the league is not fully professional so they don't qualify unless they have experience at a higher level..... ChrisTheDude 10:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Until I can make any sort of decision I need to know which leagues in Norway are professional. I am assuming the Adeccoligaen (First Division) is fully professional - can anyone confirm this? What about the Second Division? Qwghlm 12:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Punkmorten's in Norway, he should be able to confirm.... ChrisTheDude 12:55, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
      • The Second Division is not professional. Adeccoligaen, on the other hand, well... Løv-Ham for instance, to which I just made a phone call, has a squad composed of part-time footballers only, although they do pay their players. Doesn't sound "fully professional" to me, but... Punkmorten 12:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
• Very weak keep at the moment, since it seems that the Adeccoligaen is professional. Additionally, the fact that the team has contributed national reps would seem to suggest as much. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 11:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
• Weakest of all possible keeps until we have clarified the notability guidelines for footballers. The term "fully professional" is flawed IMHO, as for example the Swedish top league team Gefle IF has a few semi-professional players, which would make the top league not "fully professional" and thus deem a lot of players in other teams not notable when in reality they are very notable indeed. Generally, I am of the opinion that most players who has played regularly for at least a season in any of the top two divisions of countries the size (in terms of football interrest and level of football played) of Norway or larger have established notability. Weak keep only as the articles in question are sub-stubs at most. – Elisson • T • C • 15:40, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Change to delete, articles are easy to recreate if we decide later on that the players may indeed be notable. – Elisson • T • C • 23:46, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
• CommentDelete - my favourite of all subjects - multiple related articles on football. An article each for a player x who plays for team y, and it links back to an article which says team y has player x playing for it. I know it only takes up less than 2kb on the server, but multiply that by how many people have ever kicked a football (including me) and that's a lot. despair Bubba hotep 22:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
  • What is your rationale for your delete vote? Saying "football player articles use up server resources, deletify them all!" is not a good enough reason. – Elisson • T • C • 00:24, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I thought I made it clear. Maybe I should have put Delete - per nom first. My bad. Bubba hotep 11:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all non-notable players --Angelo 23:03, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
• keep if you receive any money, however little, that makes you at least 'semi-professional' notable enough LazyDaisy 19:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. You can't really be suggesting that semi-professional athletes are inherently notable? —Wrathchild ^(talk) 19:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - so, if a player gets the bus fare home, he is semi-pro? Interesting. Bubba hotep 08:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - as per LazyDaisy's comments PTIuv777 22:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Even without getting into a debate about the pros and cons of conferring inherent notability on the thousands of semi-pro footballers in the UK alone, the simple fact is that the guidelines clearly state that a player must play in a fully professional league to be notable, and therefore non-professional players by definition cannot be considered to pass the guidelines! ChrisTheDude 00:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, —Xyrael / 10:38, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete all per nom. I would much prefer an unambiguous report that these players meet WP:BIO rather than a string of "um, maybe" reports. Thus I don't think WP:BIO has been established. --Dhartung | Talk 17:06, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all (or redirect to Skeid Fotball); WP:BIO actually says:

  Sportspeople/athletes/competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, or at the highest level in mainly amateur sports or other competitive activities that are themselves considered notable

  Since the Adeccoligaen is the second highest league in Norwegian footy, which seems to me to fall within the sense of "the highest level", I would think that these would merit inclusion. Semi-professional footballers, just like professional ones, may or may not be notable depending on the circumstances. Norway, India, Iceland, &c, &c, rely mainly on semi-pro or amateur players for even senior leagues and sometimes for their international teams. Angus McLellan (Talk) 15:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Two mistakes here. The point about "highest level" pertains to non-league sports. For league sports which are mainly professional, such as football, we have the guideline "fully professional". These players fail this guideline. And why group Norway with C-class leagues like Iceland and D-class leagues like India? The Premier League and national team in Norway are composed of fully professional players, right there is more than enough for Wikipedia to cover with the current guidelines. Punkmorten 21:40, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
    • That's not exactly how I read it, but I'll bow to your better knowledge of the subject. So there's no !vote from me. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Dhartung and Johan Elisson. Here, I have a list of footballers that do deserve an article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChaChaFut#Articles_to_create. Employ your energies on those instead. Cheers. --ChaChaFut 07:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.