Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Idol contestants

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep Jordin Sparks and Robyn Troup, redirect the rest. Jaranda wat's sup 02:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American Idol contestants

Non-notable reality TV contestants. Either delete, or redirect all to American Idol (season 6) --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 02:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Found 38,000 g-hits. Just looking through the first couple pages I found two independent sources, which makes me think that a diligent search will demonstrate notability for her. --Kevin Murray 03:59, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
38,000 hits warrants an article almost right off the bat. Whatever happens, Jordin Sparks should be kept. IMO the others can have articles but not stubs (they need to be full articles well beyond the capacity of the season page). CrazyC83 12:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong delete. If we keep these, every reality TV/game show contestant would get notability. Having their names in the main article is enough. 216.36.121.170 03:54, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Not quite. American Idol does get far, far more viewers every week than any other similar show, so it does have significantly greater notability right off the bat. However, there is no point in creating nothing but stubs. If at least a Start-class article can be made out of them, then I think they should stand. CrazyC83 04:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Jordin Sparks per WP:Notability. She has 2 albums, has been in magazines, etc. She is notable even without being an Idol contestant. Redirect the others. -- Black Falcon 04:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep if not a stub (i.e. Jordin Sparks), otherwise redirect back to American Idol (season 6). Length should be the defining factor at this point since they are on equal footing. CrazyC83 04:26, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. According to the Idol Wikiproject, Semi-finalists can have their own page. And if you look at season 5, they had their own page until they were eliminated. What's the big deal folks? These pages have existed for what. 3 days? 4 days? Of course they are small. If it's 3-4 weeks from now and they are still this small or the contestant has been eliminated, then redirect. But it's too early right now. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 04:36, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per User:Woohookitty; time will tell whether they are worthy of staying as articles. Wasted Time R 04:51, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete except for Sparks, unless they are shown to individually pass notability guidelines for entertainers. -- Chairman S. Talk Contribs 08:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep for now, per guidelines at the Idol WikiProject. American Idol has much more cultural resonance than shows like Beauty and the Geek or Hell's Kitchen, and there's already a substantial amount of interest in this year's contestants. Let's not be too aggressive with deleting these; we'll probably have to restore most of them later. Note that each of these names registers at least 100 Google News hits, so they may already meet a strict interpretation of WP:N.Zagalejo 08:43, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Survivor and The Price is Right also get good ratings, should we make pages for their contestants as well? Even the best winners on these shows don't have articles and AI is no different. 24.185.47.131 (talk)
    • You are wrong about Survivor — Category:Survivor contestants shows that over 70 Survivor contestants have their own articles. Wasted Time R 13:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Contestants on The Price is Right usually appear for one episode and are quickly forgotten. Idol contestants remain in the public eye for at least a few weeks, and the audience gets to know them pretty well through all the little human interest segments. It's wrong to call AI "just another game show." Zagalejo 17:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete all except Keep Jordin Sparks. Sparks' article was here long before she was on Idol. Elle Bee 12:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
no opinion about others. Elle Bee 12:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - Robyn Troup is misplaced here. Troup's notability is not based on American Idol, for which she was cut, but for winning a different high-profile competition, appearing on the Grammy Awards, and gaining a recording contract. Wasted Time R 13:25, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Correct on Robyn Troup. Keep her, as it is a fair-sized article already. Even if she wasn't on AI, she should have an article. CrazyC83 15:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Hendry1307 14:51, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Redirect per TBC as idolcruft. Names are NN outside of the American Idol fandom. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.120.75.157 (talk) 18:36, 18 February 2007 (UTC).
  • Well, American Idol's fanbase is several million strong. Larger than a lot of countries. Zagalejo 19:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep per Woohookitty. --Briancua 19:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect. per nominator. 172.161.115.143 23:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment This is getting quite tangled. I'd like to see separate Afds for each of these articles, not a mass Afd. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 00:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per this discussion (which is where the Idol WikiProject guideline came from). Redirect all except Robyn Troup and Jordin Sparks These two, along with contestant, Tom Lowe, meet notability requirements outside of American Idol. Tennis DyNamiTe (sign here) 03:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • COMMENT Please forgive me if I have placed this comment in here incorrectly, I am still learning Wikipedia. Regarding entry on Robyn Troup. She should still have her own page and should not be an American Idol Season 6 redirect as she was first noted for an event other than AI. The page was created before public knowledge of her involvement in AI and should stand as separate. However; I could not locate a source regarding her contract with Tennmen Records or any record company. I could not locate the existence of Tennmen Records at all. The sole record company located as being owned by Justin Timberlake is JayTee Records and there has been no mention of signing the artist Robyn Troup. I feel the Tennmen section should be deleted. LadyLyoness 04:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC) (copied from discussion page as placed by new user) --Kevin Murray 04:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. The high viewership of Idol turns the contestants into celebrities with enough coverage in the newspapers to satisfy WP:BIO guidelines. Also, Idol is a notch better than "reality shows" in that getting to the finals there demonstrate a certain level of talent which the music industry does look at. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
    If they have contracts and record songs, by all means. But being on a reality TV/game show alone is not enough to establish notibility, since they're long forgotton after the season is over. 24.185.47.131 (talk)
  • Delete all except Robin and Jordin. --theblueflamingoSquawk 07:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete all except for contestants who may have been notable outside Idol. --Howard the Duck 08:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep all. They're all "notable" for being finalists on the top rated competition in the United States. --badlydrawnjeff talk 12:32, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect all to AI (except Jordin & Robyn), with Category:Redirects with possibilities, until Final 12 is announced, then keep final 12 contestants and delete others. Elle Bee 19:27, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - Looking at similar programmes, such as The X Factor, all articles relating to finalists, no matter where they finish, have been deleted/redirected. The X Factor is the top rating competition of this kind in the UK, so the same policy should be adopted for both, unless we are to say that they are more notable because they are American, which doesn't make much sense to me. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Leona Lewis, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roberta Howett, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Verity Keays, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chenai Zinyuku. I think that only contestants who were notable beforehand (eg. Raymond Quinn), become professional recording artists afterwards, (eg. Leona Lewis, Ben Mills, etc), or become notable for something else, warrant their own articles. Judging by the precedents, appering on a reality programme, at any level, is not a criteria for notability. I think a review of the entire notability policy is required to determine where the borderline between notable and non-notable lies when dealing with these people, but it is my opinion that these people (or at least the ones in my original nomination on 18/02) are not notable enough for Wikipedia. --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 21:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't think you can fairly compare American Idol with X Factor. There are 1,490,000 google hits for X Factor, including all the non-relevant hits for the comic book series, etc. For American Idol, you get 17,500,000 hits. the vast majority of which refer to the TV series. Zagalejo 22:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Population of the USA: 301,184,000, Population of the UK, 60,609,153. Obvious difference. If you do some simple mathematics, you will find out that in terms of the proportion or results to population, the number of American Idol links is about 0.5% of the population of the USA. The number of X Factor links is 4% of the population of the UK. American Idol contestants are not really of concern to many people in the UK, but they are possibly in the US. Equally, X Factor contestants are not really of concern in the USA, but they are in the UK. It is not fair to say that "If it is American, it is more notable than if it is British", and therefore, a uniform system for all articles, regardless of nationality, must be devised. That is why I am voting to delete these articles. Also, your searches are using the US version of Google, so obviously they are going to be misrepresentative and biased. Let's look at the UK results: American Idol, 805,000 results, The X Factor, 2,160,000 results. This proves that The X Factor is more notable in the US than American Idol is in the UK. --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 23:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Well, actually, if you put the search terms in quotes, American Idol comes out on top, 441,000 to 368,000. Honestly, though, I don't see the problem with having X-Factor articles, too. Wikipedia is not paper, and if there were as many UK users around here as American users, I bet the X-Factor AFDs would have been different. Zagalejo 16:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
There are currently over 80 individual articles on American Idol contestants, per Category:American Idol participants. Get ready for a lot of redirecting! Wasted Time R 23:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I have nothing against the ones who have become notable. It's the ones who are "famous" just for appearing on the programme that I am trying to get deleted. --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 00:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, per American_Idol#Top-selling_American_Idol_alumni only about 15 at the very most have made it in the music biz; add another 5 at most who've become prominent somewhere else. So get ready to redirect 60 of the above 80. Better start now! Wasted Time R 00:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
The articles nominated here are semi-finalists on American Idol. However most of the other articles are about finalists. This means that they meet the notability criteria at WP:BAND because they have "won or placed in a major music competition." Tennis DyNamiTe (sign here) 21:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
That will require further analysis. Many of the semi-finalists with articles have put out albums or had high enough prominence that they are notable enough for articles. CrazyC83 22:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
There are 12 finalists in each year of American Idol, most of whom go on to obscurity, post-Idol vanity CD releases notwithstanding. "Placing" at a competition usually means top 3. There are still a lot of existing articles you are going to need to redirect. Wasted Time R 22:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • COMMENT Please forgive me if I have placed this comment in here incorrectly, I am still learning Wikipedia. Regarding entry on Robyn Troup. She should still have her own page and should not be an American Idol Season 6 redirect as she was first noted for an event other than AI. The page was created before public knowledge of her involvement in AI and should stand as separate. However; I could not locate a source regarding her contract with Tennmen Records or any record company. I could not locate the existence of Tennmen Records at all. The sole record company located as being owned by Justin Timberlake is JayTee Records and there has been no mention of signing the artist Robyn Troup. I feel the Tennmen section should be deleted. LadyLyoness 04:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I moved the above post from Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/American Idol contestants, and have redirected that to here to avoid further confusion. --GW_SimulationsUser Page | Talk 21:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong delete per GW. Axiomm 22:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete., 22:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete I do not think we need even redirects in this instance, because a search will find their names if they are in a more general article.DGG 04:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Not necessarily, depending on how the search is set. At a minimum, these should be redirected. CrazyC83 16:33, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, let's not make Wikipedia less user-friendly. Besides, redirects are cheap. Zagalejo 16:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
So are articles. Isaac 02:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - not notable. The whims of pop culture fade away long before an encyclopaedia entry should. - WeniWidiWiki 06:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Fine---when the season's over and these guys have faded away, someone can do this again. In the meantime, keep, at least for now. Isaac 02:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. BuickCenturyDriver (Honk, odometer) 06:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep all. They are notable as finalists on the show. --musicpvm 01:17, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • keep it why delete it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.21.1.187 (talk • contribs)..
  • I was asked to comment on this AFD as I have participated in many of the ones relating to The X Factor. What makes someone notable in the USA should be the same for in the UK. The number of viewers of the show or the population of the country are irrelevant. Contestants should only have articles if they became professional recording artists after the show, or are notable for something else (such as Ray Quinn who was an actor before he auditioned for The X Factor). Therefore - delete Sanjaya Malakar, Sundance Head and Antonella Barba. Gina Glocksen has been redirected. Jordin Sparks appears to be the most notable of them all, but I wish to stay neutral on that one. If her article is deleted, then so should the article for her album. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 21:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per Woohookitty, this AFD title is somewhat misleading. Yamaguchi先生 02:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Jordan Sparks article was here before she made it on American Idol. If it was good enough to keep then, it's good enough to keep now. Darrik2 03:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and provide sources Agree with Darrik2, if the article preceded the appearance on the show, it should remain. Also agree with WoohooKitty, "According to the Idol Wikiproject, Semi-finalists can have their own page. And if you look at season 5, they had their own page until they were eliminated. What's the big deal folks?" Furthermore, Wikipedia has biographies of people with far less talent and career history; for example, 1984's Clara Peller featured in Burger King's Where's the Beef? ad campaign. My biggest concern is lack of sources for awards section. Wayfarers43 16:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Jordin Sparks article, redirect the rest. Due to her appearances on America's Most Talented Kid, etc., Sparks appears to have notability outside of American Idol. The others do not. -Big Smooth 18:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect excepting Jordin. When some get more famous later in the show, this allows for the pages to be un-redirected. Jordan 19:38, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I am sure some of these contestants have gotten more hits in the last week than have some articles posted here for a year. They are definately "notable." If dialidol has an article, why shouldn't the people the site is about. Most people who watch this show don't even know about dialidol, but sure know these contestants. KEEP KEEP KEEP. By the way, my username is p0wn, but I'm too lazy to log in. :P --74.130.71.74 21:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep These candidates have notability, being the top few remaining. American Idol is the most watched show on TV and as the season progresses hits for these people will only increase. Deleting the articles just draws people to Google and away from Wikipedia. caz | speak 02:08, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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