Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alpha Kappa Nu (3rd nomination)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You have new messages (last change).
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy delete - article created by an apparent sock of a banned user (Mykungfu). Creating this article, more than once, was a favorite pastime of MKF. This speedy closure is not meant to preclude re-creation of this article by a user in good standing. | Mr. Darcy talk 00:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Alpha Kappa Nu (3rd nomination)
Claimed to be the first African-American Greek letter fraternity. A prior article was deleted twice based on reason which had little to do with notability (see 1st Afd, 2nd AfD). The decision was upheld on review, but the article was userfied on request and in this new form reintroduced into article space. This AfD is to decide whether the prior problems have been resolved with this version and, if remediable, fix remaining problems, and also, if the sources are sufficient to write a neutral article and support the claims. I am currently neutral, but I might form an opinion later. ~ trialsanderrors 09:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- Strong keep. I've read the previous AfD several times, and I do not understand the claim on that AfD that the existence of this article can somehow be construed as an attack page against the Alpha Phi Alpha page. This article is well referenced, and makes no extrapolation of its sources to make or extend any of the claims attributed to scholars on black history. —Doug Bell talk 09:29, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, I forgot to include the 2nd AfD, which has a bit more on the lack of sources. Done now. ~ trialsanderrors 09:34, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- OK, changing from keep to strong keep based on the comments on the 2nd AfD. The historical significance of this article does not rest on whether the claim to be the first black fraternity is accurate or not. The article discusses a topic which is notable simply for the fact that the subject is part of a notable controversy, discussed in reliable sources, regarding whether it was the first black fraternity. It's place in history as part of the controversy seals its notability. —Doug Bell talk 10:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, I forgot to include the 2nd AfD, which has a bit more on the lack of sources. Done now. ~ trialsanderrors 09:34, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. I am unfamiliar with the previously-deleted article, so I have no opinion on how closely it resembles that. But I can't see any problem with the article we have except references formatting and one or two wording tweaks. A stub, a bit of a mystery, but important. --Dhartung | Talk 10:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: I agree with Dhartung above in failing to see any problem with the topic of this article. I have started to put the first few references into footnotes, but the article needs some copy editing and I think the references need some consolidating by someone more willing than me to actually read up on the subject. Pharamond 15:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- The underlying thread behind the first two AfD's (which by themselves were massively riddled with SPA and bad faith problems on both sides) is that the evidentiary basis for the claim that AKN was the first black fraternity is very thin. In particular the secondary sources seem to draw on the same primary sources, which since they are affiliated with Kappa Alpha Psi, might not be independent. Kappa Alpha Psi used to be Kappa Alpha Nu, the follow-up black fraternity of Alpha Kappa Nu at Indiana University. I proposed to FrozenApe to include a section on AKN in the KAP article, but he considered it a stand-alone topic. In any case, my primary goal is to get an AfD that focuses on the merit of the article and not on interpersonal issues that bogged down the first two (and the first DRV). ~ trialsanderrors 18:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- Comment and Keep There are numerous sources that aren't secondary that state that Alpha Kappa Nu is the first black fraternity [1], [2] . The sources are documented and luckily available online thru a scanning of books by google.com. The problem is that it did not last very long and there is very little recorded history on them. You won't find any sources that will state that there is a black fraternity prior to the formation of Alpha Kappa Nu. You will find sources that state that they are the first black fraternity outside of Sigma Pi Phi which was founded in 1905 [3] (Ebony magazine 2004). I disagreed with Trialsanderrors because Alpha Kappa Nu and Kappa Alpha Psi were founded in the same school but were unrelated. I won't comment much because I'd like other outside opinions. thanks though. FrozenApe 19:13, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- The underlying thread behind the first two AfD's (which by themselves were massively riddled with SPA and bad faith problems on both sides) is that the evidentiary basis for the claim that AKN was the first black fraternity is very thin. In particular the secondary sources seem to draw on the same primary sources, which since they are affiliated with Kappa Alpha Psi, might not be independent. Kappa Alpha Psi used to be Kappa Alpha Nu, the follow-up black fraternity of Alpha Kappa Nu at Indiana University. I proposed to FrozenApe to include a section on AKN in the KAP article, but he considered it a stand-alone topic. In any case, my primary goal is to get an AfD that focuses on the merit of the article and not on interpersonal issues that bogged down the first two (and the first DRV). ~ trialsanderrors 18:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
