Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abigail's Ghost

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Commentary from several extremely new users has been disregarded in accordance with WP:SOCK. — Mar. 3, '06 [09:32] <freakofnur_xture|talk>

[edit] Abigail's Ghost and Joshua Theriot

No evidence given for notability of Abigail's Ghost, no Alexa rank for linked website, one contributor proposed it for speedy deletion. Also nominating the sister article Joshua Theriot which was proposed for deletion through WP:PROP. RobertG ♬ talk 11:17, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as it doesn't pass WP:MUSIC. Bobby1011 12:40, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete both articles as non-notable vanity. dbtfz^talk 16:33, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Abigail's Ghost is actually fairly popular in the underground progressive music scene in Louisiana and has somewhat of a cult following locally. I've actually used this as a source for an article I've written for a local music magazine. I don't think this is a vanity article in any way. It is no more a vanity article than any write up on Radiohead or Coldplay. -Carmine Tripp —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sillyfeetmcgee (talk • contribs). THIS COMMENT WAS INCORRECTLY ENTERED (removing previous votes) -Jcbarr 04:42, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep.Incorrectly entered or not, Carmine (Sillyfeetmcgee) has a point. Besides being leaders of the Louisiana art rock scene, acquiring corporate sponsorships after only a few months of forming and getting extensive media coverage, the lineup of Abigail's Ghost includes world's fastest drummer record holder Seth "Bad Boy" Davis on which numerous articles have been published. This band is beyond well on its way to expanding its region of influence. Sometimes I wish you guys would stop being so meticulously bureacratic long enough to see that others actually find merit in these entries.-singleton41 01:57, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Joshua; Neutral on Ghost on both -- jtheriot says he added info to the Ghost article, but there's still no citation of an external source showing notability. Read the article - they've never released an album or performed live. -Jcbarr 17:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

. I'm not expert enough to really vote on this, other than certainly could be done in MAX a single article. I'm not moved by arguments by folks who don't contribute to WP in any other way as well. -Jcbarr 07:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

• If you would visit the site you would see photos from various live gigs and studio sessions. I've personally seen them perform and have written an article regarding the band in a local music related publication. They do perform live and do have recorded material. If you would like I can send it to you. EDIT: I also noticed that you changed your original vote as if you had been somewhat shamed and insulted for making incorrect assumptions and are simply getting back at the writer of the article as a personal vendetta. Sillyfeetmcgee 17:52, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. I've seen this band (Abigail's Ghost) and all its members interviewed on the 8 o'clock news for HTV of Folse Productions, inc. a couple of times and seen them in concert as well. Although it's not exactly my style of music, they are a well known act in this part of the country.-yacovhirsch 09:48, 23 February 2006
• Keep. i'm the one who originally wrote the article. After the first deletion notice i read the WP:MUSIC thing to see what was wrong and Abigail's Ghost does in fact meet the criteria of "Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or the local scene of a city (or both, as in British hip hop)". So i added that information to the entry but i think i forgot to put that i had edited it so...just letting you all know i had fixed it. -jtheriot@berk 11:54, 23 February 2006
• Delete. As per WP:MUSIC. Vanity + not-notable. Where exactly is this online cult following? --Flonkus 04:20, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. It's exactly where you might think an online following exists: Message boards, blogs, forums, etc. Grow a brain.-singleton41 01:27, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. Why don't you source them then? --Flonkus 06:53, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. I have edited the article and added hyperlinks to places on the web where the band or its members are mentioned including the band's new online forum. Abigail's Ghost has been featured on both television and radio broadcasts including a spot on the news in August 2005, has a Budweiser sponsorship and is one of the more musically respected bands in Louisiana.-Rimsect 09:18, 24 February 2006

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Commentary from several extremely new users has been disregarded in accordance with WP:SOCK. — Mar. 3, '06 [09:34] <freakofnur_xture|talk>

[edit] Kenneth J. Wilson and Seth Davis

• Delete these as well under this same issue. User:Sillyfeetmcgee created these articles last night. -Jcbarr 13:25, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep I think the fact that you want to delete this just proves how ignorant you are about the drumming world. Fellow world record holder Tim Waterson also has a Wikipedia article. How is Seth Davis excluded from having his own as well? This is completely ridiculous. Sillyfeetmcgee 13:39, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

• There is a standard for Wikipedia for inclusion of musicians. Take a look at WP:MUSIC. If you can put the appropriate (including cited) claims of notability into the article, I'd be the 1st to change my vote. -Jcbarr 13:48, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
• Check the article on Tim Waterson and ask yourself if this article has any more right of being on Wikipedia than Seth Davis'. Sillyfeetmcgee 17:41, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

By the way, accusing people of being sock puppets without any proof seems a bit presumptuous don't you think? Sillyfeetmcgee 13:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

• There was no accusation -- there was a statement of logic. "If" Singleton's comment of "I can't edit articles because people are proposing *my* articles for deletion" was accurate, then that implies Singleton is the same person as the creator of these articles, thus a sockpuppet ID. I'd be happy to be wrong. -Jcbarr 13:51, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
• To reiterate the fact, User:singleton41 stated "It's difficult to contribute when everyone and their mother objects to your entries being left up now isn't it?". I don't see where he stated that he wrote the article. It's probably because he didn't write it and is just someone trying to voice an opinion on this matter. Sillyfeetmcgee 17:49, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Did i make you happy lil buddy?-jtheriot@berk 12:02, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
• There's also a chance that there may have been a hint of sarcasm in his reply. Whether or not he's a sockpuppet or not, he did make somewhat of a point. Just do some research of your own and you'll find that deletion of this article is totally unnecessary. I'm making it a point to add more information about underground or obscure artists on Wikipedia and I think that deleting articles on a whim without taking into consideration the valuable knowledge that can be gained (regardless of whether or not the article is properly formatted or cited) is at complete odds with the principles of Wikipedia. Sillyfeetmcgee 16:44, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Seth Davis is a W O R L D R E C O R D H O L D E R. How much more notable does he have to be? He and Kenneth are both part of the same NOTABLE band that gets NOTABLE media reviews for catering to a NOTABLE genre and culture.-singleton41 12:02, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Envy & jealously are for those that have low self-esteem and hold resentment at seeing the success of others. If any individual has taken the time to listen to Abigail's ghost, LIVE or RECORDED (I’ve heard both), then he or she realizes that to create this passionate, progressive, & subtly ambiguous music, takes a high level of brilliance & patience. Their knowledge of musical arts can hardly be summed up in one short paragraph let alone through Wikipedia. Research them, take the time to get to know the band and their music and I am sure that you will realize that your unsanctioned attack on their article will be lifted.-mRNA 22:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC) John Joseph

• Delete. Quality of the music is not an issue. Abigail's Ghost hasn't even recorded a full length studio album. And the label they are recording on was started by people associated with the band. The group hasn't accomplished anything notable yet, so they are not notable now. This isn't myspace or soundclick. --Flonkus 04:31, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
• 'Question. Why are you so dumb? The "full length studio album" you spoke of has been recorded. It's called Selling Insincerity. I'd send it to you if you weren't such a tool. As for the label being started by people associated with the band, are you aware of how many great musicians/songwriters have started their own label AND released their own music on it successfully? Frank Zappa-Zappa, DiscReet, Barking Pumpkin Steve Vai-Favored Nations Berry Gordy-Motown. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that your arguments are vanity arguments because you are so presumtuous in thinking you know everything. You should delete them.-singleton41 01:44, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. I think it's clear who the tools are. --Flonkus 07:00, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. Great observation, but just in case there was any doubt, I'll go ahead and list them for us: Flonkus, Jcbarr, Bobby1011, and dbtfz. --singleton41 02:31, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: This is just with respect to Seth Davis. How notable is World's Fastest Drummer -- I'm just not that familiar with drumming. The Guinness Book of World Records lists the world's fastest drummer (single strokes) as Johnny Rabb [1], who's listed as 7th on World's Fastest Drummer's Battle of the hands [2]. Guinness has no mention of records for double strokes. My comment is that if World's Fastest Drummer is notable, then Seth Davis should be notable as well for being the double stroke champion; however, there is not even a World's Fastest Drummer page on wikipedia. Establish its notability and the argument holds per WP:MUSIC: i.e. Has won or placed in a major music competition. -- Samir ∙ ^T_C 04:58, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Another note is that Mike Mangini has an article for which notability is presumably established for him being a World's Fastest Drummer champion -- Samir ∙ ^T_C 04:58, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: In reference to Flonkus. Of course the quality of their music is an issue! The basis of your argument is based upon not only Seth's but the whole band's notability. [[3]]. The exceptional quality of their music, whether it be the style of music you enjoy to listen to or not, embraces notoriety.
• Comment: In reference to Samir_grover. Samir_grover you are definitely correct. You know very little about drumming and even less about research. Firstly, if you were to look a little deeper in the the worlds fastest drummer web site you would have noticed two names that you had made reference to, right next to Seth Davis'. [[4]]. That’s right! Right there in front of your face. Mike "Da Man" Mangini, & Johnny "3 Bomb" Rabb. Not to mention other famous drummers such as Art "The God Father" Verdi, & Tim "Silver Feet" Waterson. Secondly, take a good look at your Guinness book of world records page. [[5]]. If you were to read the headline carefully you would understand that an individual has to challenge Guinness for a record to be recorded.[[6]]. They do not just show up at any given event to record records. Finally, I am extremely tired of doing your research so here is your last site. Why don't you prove that he isnt notable. [[7]] --mRNA 18:31, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Harsh. Personal attacks, lots of fun. Remember WP:CIVIL to all the puppets. -- Samir ∙ ^T_C 06:34, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
    • mRNA, You've missed the argument. Notability is established if the person has won or placed in a major music competition. As a corollary, a Guinness record for fastest drummer is notable per WP:MUSIC. The question is whether "World's Fastest Drummer" is a major music competition. If it is, great, Seth Davis should be included. If not, then no, he should not. By saying that Mike Mangini had a wikipedia article for "World's Fastest Drummer", I was establishing WFD's notability (i.e. supporting you), despite the absence of a wikipedia article. -- Samir ∙ ^T_C 06:34, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.