Talk:Artsakh
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[edit] Deletion
Please do not delete info without citing your reasons. I suspect the sock puppetry here. Grandmaster 08:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I see no reason why Azeri name of the region was removed. Explanation is needed. And I agree that here can be another case of sock puppetry--Dacy69 19:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
- Why not to put the Georgian verions or transliteration of Artsakh then, or Japanese? What does Russia or Azerbaijan have to do with the name of Armenian or Albanian province? Why should we mention about these languages If you consider the terrotory of Artsakh once used to be a part of Russia or Azerbaijan then we have to admit that Persia will also claim its right to place the Persian name. As far as I remember neither Persia nor Russia or Azerbaijan ever used Artsakh or even Arsak to describe the region which has always been known for them as Karabakh. If you want to go through the history, then why don't you mention the name Oristena or Urtichene, Roman Byzentine versions etc etc. I will never believe Azeris ever used Arsak. It is Karabakh for them. --armenianNY 02:00, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- Because Karabakh (Artsakh) is integral part of Azerbaijan according to U.N., U.S. State Department, PACE, CIS, and Council of Europe, etc. Every single country of the world recognizes is as a part of the Republic of Azerbaijan. So, the statement of the name in the state language is a must. After all, Wikipedia is encyclopedia of facts, not of illusions.Atabek 21:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Supposingly Nagorno Karabakh is a recognized part of Azerbaijan, so what, Artsakh is a historical part of Caucasian Albania or Armenia and its territory is not exactly what today's Nagorno karabakh is. Oristena and Utrichene included territories of todays Armenian Syunik, some part of Armenian Taush, Azeri Gyanja etc etc. When Caucasian Albania or Artsakh existed, there were no turkic speaking tribes in Caucasus since they came only in the 11th century. Therefore, it was impossible that any Azerbaijani would use the term Artsakh or Ersak,simply, because there were no Azerbaijanis there. There were Azari (not Azeri) speaking Persians in the nearby provinces, later arabs captured the territory in 7th century, and the muslim element started using the name Karabakh. Turkic tribes came later and took the term Karabakh from Persians and Arabs. We do not see any reason why should we mentioned the name of ancient province in the language that appeared centuries after that province ceased to exist. By the same way some people put the version of Battle of Sardarapat in French. Guys, this is the English Wikipedia. If everybody come and put the toponim or any georgraphical or historic event in his mother tongue the whole page would be taken just by names. Will it be appropriate if I edit in Gyanja page the name and put Armenian Gandzak because we call the city that way. Or if I go and edit the page of Stambul and put the Armenian verion K.Polis with armenian letters on the top? Or there are some Armenian sources calling Baku Bagu. Sould I mention it on the top? Or may be you want also to write in Erevan page that the Azeri name is Erivan? Where is this going?--armenianNY 21:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
This article is about a historical province, not a political entity. Therefore, references to modern Azer. state and its state language are irrelevant. The term Artsakh has been used only by Armenians and has appeared almost exclusively in historical Armenian texts. Based on that, I agree – the Russian world "Арцах" can be removed. As to the Azerb. word Ercek or whatever, it is historically unprecedented and unreferenced, and is a modern fabrication evidently aimed at attributing Artsakh away from its Armenian origin. If participants want to use this term, they should find an NPOV third party source suggesting that Ercek has been in use as an authentic, historical term. Zurbagan 02:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
... continued: for instance - Constantinople. Should we include in an article about that city a Turkish version of this name simply because now it is part of Turkey? No - Constantinople is a Byzantine/Greek phenomenon, as Artsakh is an Armenian phenomenon. Zurbagan 03:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
...yeah, now about Ganca/Gianja (i.e. Armenian Gandzak). In the article about Ganca, the Armenian term Gandzak should be mentioned - in contrast to this specific case. This is because Gandzak is the original or at least the earliest recorded name for that settlement. Ganca is likely to be a phonetic distortion of the word Gandzak. Zurbagan 03:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- "Gandzak" is not Armenian -- it is Iranic, Persian. Even the capital of Iran was Gandzak -- and that was way before Ganja was founded in 5th century AD. So sorry, but "Gandzak" is as Armenian as "Artsakh". --AdilBaguirov 08:29, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
