Image talk:Armorist.jpg

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of a fair use image as a replaceable image. Please do not modify it.

The result of the debate was to Delete the image. —Angr 18:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Two things:

• It's not the book that is discussed here but the arms depicted on the cover
• These are traditional arms and described in a blazon. Anyone who is good at drawing can create a free representation from the blazon. [Unsigned comment at 20:00 on 14 January 2007 by 81.193.153.237]

The fair use justification does not depend upon whether or not it is the book which is being discussed. It depends on fair use of the image.

In fact, however, the book illustration is directly relevant to the subject of the article, since it is a tribute volume to the subject of the article, which shows the high esteem in which he was held.

Moreover, this image does not fail the fair use test, because it is not the case that "it illustrates a subject for which a free image might reasonably be found or created that adequately provides the same information." The argument that "Anyone who is good at drawing can create a free representation" would, if correct, make a fair use justification impossible in practically every case and is not a well-founded argument. This coat of arms is particularly complex and difficult to draw, it is not like a simple coat such as a red cross on a white background. No other image is available, and it is no answer to fair use that a person both expert in blazon and skilled at drawing might create another image; such a person is not available to the encyclopedia. The test is "might reasonably" be found or created, not "possibly" found or created. There is no reasonably available alternative to the fair use of this image and the fact is that, if this image is deleted, the coat of arms of the subject will not be illustrated in the article at all - which, since the subject is an armorist and herald, whose coat of arms was personally designed by himself, would be a great loss to the project. Chelseaboy 14:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

According to Wikipedida's fair use policy, if an image is resonably replaceable by a free equivanlant, a fair use one should not be used. Because to illisstrate the same thing someone could make a free image, technically this cannot be used under fair user per policy.--RyanB88 14:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Claiming that an image is dificult to make does not qualify the current image to fair use. As someone had to make the image for the book cover it is not impossible for someone to make a free image to use, especially with the number of users of wikipedia, i am sure there are many people who can utilize free graphics, also you could search public domain sources.--RyanB88 15:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

You do not address my distinction between what is possible and what is reasonable. I should make it clear that I am totally unable to replicate this image or coat of arms and, if you believe it straightforward to do so, it would be helpful if you or some other Wikipedian could take on the task. As I have said, they will need to be both expert in blazon and with the technical ability to create the image by whatever means, and I don't know anyone like that on Wikipedia, although it would be wonderful if you or another reader of this page did. Chelseaboy 15:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.