Talk:Architectural engineering/Archive 1

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Discussion Archive #1 FactsAndFigures 16:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I buy this description of an "Architectural Engineer". Does an architectural engineer replace the various engineers in a project? Is it another professional the owner is expected to hire? What kind of buildings need an architectural engineer?

From my reading of this article "Architectural Engineer" appears to be a fancy name for a broadly trained civil engineer. -- Webgeer 22:48, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

In fact, an "Architectural Engineer" is more specialized than a regular civil engineer. This specialization is recognized by ABET as well as ASCE. For more info see:

--SR

Contents

[edit] Education

Is Architecural engineering offered as a course at the undergraduate level (I'm asking about the USA or Europe, have never heard about Architecural engineering in Australia)? If it is, is it a mish-mash of civil, mechanical and electrical engineering?--Commander Keane 11:59, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Architectural Engineering is offered as an undergraduate course at the University of Leeds, England. A similar course also runs under a different name at the University of Sheffield, England. The USA I am not aware of, but since one of the years of the Leeds Architectural Engineering course is at Pennsylvania State University, I would predict that there is a course available there.

[edit] Difference from architecture

"Architectural engineers, as a distinct and separate profession, are somewhat redundant in that their role overlaps that of the architect and other project engineers."

Actually, this is usually not true. For example, depending on local laws/codes, an architect will usually need the help of a building engineer for a building with more than two stories to ensure its integrity.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Perwisky (talk • contribs) .

The above description does not give a very positive image to future architectural engineers. I am starting to study architectural engineering this year and have chosen it because I believe it to be the most important role in modern architecture in the increasing attitude to let the architect just do the design of the appearance and ambiance of structures and leave everything else (all the building services and structural integrity) up to engineers. Of course, in some cases (or quite possibibly many cases), one person or company may cover several roles in the design of a structure.

In countries such as Canada, the UK and Australia, architectural engineering is more commonly known as Building engineering.
This statement is not true and should be omitted. It also seems to confuse readers not clear with the distinction...The term "Building Engineering" in these countries refers the the various engineering fields involved in the design and construction of a building (structural, building science, mechanical, etc.). An "architectural engineer" is a single professional engineer, recognized in many US jurisdictions, and is similar to an architect.
A simple Google search will prove that "Building Engineering" exists as a discipline in many educational institutions.64.229.141.156 18:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
On another note, you are somewhat incorrect in your assessment of architects and delude yourself if you think training as an architectural engineer will cover all aspects of designing a building. The fragmentation of the architect's role has more to do with the complexity of modern construction and less with "leav(ing) everything else (all the building services and structural integrity) up to engineers". Even the superman "architectural engineer" will need to work with a team of specialists.Denia06 23:56, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Merge with Building Engineering

Further to the comment posted above, this is a copy of my post on Talk:Building engineering: I think architectural engineering should refer to the specific (i.e. the single, separate engineer/architect animal) and building engineering to the various engineering professions involved with the construction of buildings. I've started to modify both sections to help clarify. Another soution would be to merge the two headings, but keep the two aspects of the definition clearly separate. This is only a beginning and I welcome further comments.207.6.233.239 22:25, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Response:

Re: a merger. 'Architectural engineering' education is well-established in the U.S., and very possibly predates formal architectural education here (the latter was taught mainly through apprenticeships, even through FLW's time). The architectural engineering name recruits well -- high school students who are considering architecture are often advised by elders to instead study engineering due to better career prospects. 'Architectural engineering' is thus highly attractive to these youth.

Also, unfortunately, the uninformed public perception of the title 'building engineer' here is that they are janitors and maintenance personnel. Ouch.

Thus, it is not likely that U.S architectural engineering programs will convert to 'building engineering'. However, university faculty abroad please consider experimenting with our version, 'architectural engineering', to see if it also has the exceptional recruitment qualities that we've found. You might have some difficulty with the architects, but make it clear that it is 'engineering' that applies to architecture, like 'mechanical engineering' applies to mechanical things. You can also explain that formal architectural engineering education likely predates architecture, but verify this first ...

(above comment added by FactsAndFigures previously)

[edit] Duplicate Article

An Architectural Engineering article, started later than this Architectural engineering article (note difference in capitalization is significant in Wikipedia's software), exists. I previously proposed that the former be merged with the latter (see its discussion). I've now copied-over, edited, and added the key content, being the career titles. The formal merger/redirect is still waiting upon any negative comments in the other article.

FactsAndFigures 15:17, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AEs as SEs

This article is a bit overboard in a few spots. The possible title "structural engineer" is not accurate. Many states license this separately, either as a PE specialization, or as a stand-alone license. The critieria for licensed SEs is quite substantial. Calling an AE a structural engineer would be illegal in many jurisdictions, and borderline ethically in the rest. The criteria for SE programs and AE programs are very different and the AEs just don't get enough structures to qualify, even with the concentration. (See here for another AE curricula.) For the record, I hold an Illnois SE, PEs in five states, and am an NCEES Model Law Structural Engineer. MARussellPESE 22:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AEs as a discipline

AE isn't really a stand-alone discipline like civil, mechanical, or electrical. It's a specialty of civil, like structural or environmental. It draws from these, but doesn't have a distinct body of knowledge to itself that separates it from other disciplines. It is an ABET accredited program, but it's lead society is ASCE (ABET (2005) Criteria for Accrediting Engineering Programs, Effective for Evaluations During the 2006-2007 Accreditation Cycle. p.6), and there's only fourteen of them nationwide. Its professional association AEI is actually an institute of ASCE and is very young. I'm familiar with the difference between these ASCE institutes and regular professional societies as I'm a charter member of a sister ASCE institute: the Structural Engineering Institute.

This is not to say that AEs don't practice engineering, nor have a unique educational background that exposes them to the building as a suite of integrated systems. (Although the sentence: "… the architectural engineer, with a specialization in structures, may better understand the goals of the architect as he or she designs the structural systems." is a tad hyperbolic.) As an integrated specialty focused on buildings this specialty offers both a broader understanding of these systems as they must be integrated, but at the same time offers a good deal less depth of exposure to any one discipline. This article basically is saying that this specialty is so diverse that's it's a stand-alone discipline. MARussellPESE 22:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

More structural engineering info added, and info that many ARCEs have their P.E.s in other areas to help address the above concerns. ABET's site is not current; there are 18 in the U.S. now -- 125% growth since the late 1970's. Only one BS-SE program left in the U.S. ... 129.237.114.171 14:08, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
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