Talk:Aquinas College, Perth/Archive 2

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This is the second archive for talk:Aquinas College, Perth


Contents

[edit] Layout

Im not so convinced about the Mount Henry Peninsula section being made from a sub-section into its own section and the location being merged into the history section - it just doesnt seem to make sense to me. I think it should be Location with Mt Henry as a sub-cat. Please explain. Smbarnzy 07:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] GA

Passing GA status. This article certainly meets all GA standards. Da54 23:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe this article is not a good article yet. Here is an incomplete list of the elements that in my opinion should be improved first to meet the good article requirements. Don't let this list discourage you, if you tackle the items one by one, it shouldn't be too hard!
  • the lead should give a proper summary of the article (1b fail)
  • the section "Buildings and infrastructure" should follow the Manuel of Style on list incorporation (1c fail)
  • the section "Notable alumni" should not be empty apart from a link
  • all references should contain text (2a fail)
  • acre (Imperial system) and hectare (metric system) should not be used interchangeably:
  • the section "Mt Henry Peninsula" should not be in this article (3b fail)
  • the images should illustrate the text, they should not be in an image gallery
  • all images should have captions (6a fail)
  • all fair use images should have fair use rationales and none of the licenses of images should be debated, this concerns most of the images used (6c fail)
Good luck! - Ilse@ 03:55, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
See also Wikipedia:Good articles/Review. - Ilse@ 04:07, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Congraluations on your passing GA. President Fred

All crossed out stuff has been done by me Smbarnzy 17:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Image Problems

In my opinion the article is improving, although there are still some problems with images:
There is still work to be done! - Ilse@ 01:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
The description page of Image:Uniform - Sport - Hockey.jpg has not changed. - Ilse@ 13:37, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Fair use images should have a reduced resolution, and in the fair use rationale should also be explained why they are not replaceable. When attribution to the author is needed, maybe Template:Cc-by-2.5 or Template:Cc-by-sa-2.5 are appropriate licenses. - Ilse@ 13:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] All done now

Nothing more to do. Shall I nominate this for Feature Article now? Fredraysy


[edit] AC Infastructure

The following material is from the discussions page of Aquinas College Perth Infrastructure

Buildings Are any of these building heritage listed, who were the builders and architects of each, as these things contribute to notiability. The article may have survived AFD with no consensus indicating that there are problems that need to be addressed. Gnangarra 12:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes they are im pretty sure the chapel, main building, humanities block and gym are like Class-A listed or something, there was some debate on it - in the city of South Perth Website somewhere. Thanks Smbarnzy 15:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Check Heritage Council of WA's website also. Check Waroona, Western Australia to see an example of what I'm thinking of (ref 3) - there's usually a shortened one that's just the listing, then a longer one like this one that gives the entire background and history. Orderinchaos78 05:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually - check right here and here Orderinchaos78 06:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Length of article

The article is too long for a school article. Many of the things mentioned do not have to be mentioned, nor do they have the notabilty. See Trinity College, Perth for a suitable article size. Thanks, --Ali K 07:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Text needs considerable attention. I've done the Sport section and the things I notice include a lot of repetition, what I'd call "delayed punchline" (where you have to read the entire sentence to gather its meaning, and could potentially be misled until doing so), copious overlinking of common words and overbolding of the college's name wherever it appears. I don't know if other sections are as bad and I have a function to go to this evening, but if others (and especially the Aquinas editors) want to consider these points in reviewing the text of the article, I'd say feel free. Don't forget that compelling prose and logical flow are key GA/FA assessment criteria. If we work this correctly on the path to GA, it will greatly reduce the queries that can be raised at FA stage (and FA stage can be open public slather whereas GA is somewhat more collegial in nature). Oh, and a very quick glimpse at Junior, Middle and Senior School reveals a lot of unencyclopaedic content that could be trimmed (general criteria should be, if you can't prove it - or put it another way - if it is impossible to prove, it shouldn't be there.) Also, list or note form should be avoided *in* prose - if it's in the prose, it should be a full sentence. Orderinchaos78 08:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Overlinking appears throughout the article, not just in the sports section. I think a more presise, and cut down version of the article will still be able to make the criteria of FA. As it is now, from my perspective, there is no possible way. Articles on the House System need not exist. Remembering that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia is an important point. Would you open an encyclopedia and read a whole article on the House System of a particular school? While an article on the school may be needed, articles with specific information on a certain part of the school may not be. For example: Aquinas College, Perth Sport should not really have an article to itself, but should instead be merged to the main article. This is needed for all sub articles. If people want very detailed information about the school, and the small and presise article (that will, hopefully, exist in the near future) does not provide enough information, they can use the school's website, or contact the school directly. Its just something to think about. A small presise article is more likely to be useful than a many page novel about the school. --Ali K 11:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
In my view - the length of the article is good - it may have been a bit overdone with all of the junior middle and senior schools bullshit that was on there when you saw it last. But i have trimmed it back to where it should be. How is the Trinity article anything to be proud of - it is practically a start-class article. Aquinas college article offers all of the information required on the subject and a little bit more ;) Im not sure exactly how to reply to your comment but - what should be taken off then? thanks Smbarnzy 11:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
all of the daughter articles are going to be removed/merged into the article, most of that has taken place. Smbarnzy 11:09, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Right, after some work (Wordpad is grand), I've managed to cull almost all of the excessive links and bolding in the article, and made some other minor adjustments to pagination which were breaking the article in some (most?) browsers. Still a lot of work needed on content, but at least the article is workable now from an editing standpoint. The sections on the Junior, Middle and Senior Schools really should be about a single paragraph each, two at most. Orderinchaos78 16:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Another edit, another talk page note - I culled Junior School down to what I believe is an acceptable size. However, the result is now awkward and incomplete. It contains nothing about sport, for the only reason that the sport section in the original section could not be salvaged (it in effect had no content). I would encourage editors to add back something about sport, but keep it short and to the point, and specific to the junior section (as there is already other sections about sport in the article anyway). Orderinchaos78 16:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Junior, Middle & Senior School Sections

I think breaking the junior, middle and senior school sections down into one instead of having 4 or 5 sections coming off each is a good idea. it makes the article less cluttered and easier to follow. Smbarnzy 16:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Name

The article seems to mention nothing about the name of the College and how it is named after St Thomas Aquinas etc etc? possibly included in the main article summary at the top. Smbarnzy 12:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - That should be either in a very early section or in the lead. It is buried deep in the Junior School section at present I believe. Orderinchaos78 13:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I was thinking of lead or history - although prob history, as i dont think it fits into the lead - but it prob should be in the lead, i think. Smbarnzy 14:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Pictures

[edit] Pictures

[edit] List Of Pictures Required

I wish to add a gallery of images to this article and some of them will be used in the article and the daughter articles of the College. Pictures with ** next to them are wha we most desperately need. Please remove the names of images we have added. Smbarnzy 07:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Main Building**
  • College Foundation Stone**
  • Mary Kerr Arts Complex
  • Chapel
  • SOSE Block
  • Science Block
  • Maths Block
  • Design & Technology Block
  • Mount Sion Formation Centre
  • Chaplains Residence
  • Library
  • Canteen
  • Junior School
  • Boarding Houses**
  • Hughes Dining Hall
  • Gymnasium
  • Pool**
  • Basketball Courts
  • Tennis Courts
  • Rowing Sheds
  • Redmond Common
  • Memorial Oval** & Churack Pavillion & CP Foley Scoreboard
  • McMahon Oval
  • Lynch Oval
  • Clery Park
  • Kennedy Fields & Mike Kinsella Hockey Pavillion**
  • Front Entrance** (Mt Henry Road) of College
  • Tear Drop (Bus area)
  • Aquinas Bay
  • Red-back Spider** (sports symbol)
  • Uniforms** - Full Winter, Summer, and various sports uniforms (Hockey/soccer, football, athletics/rowing, cross country, cricket, rugby, basketball, badminton, tennis, volleyball and waterpolo/swimming.

Note uniforms with / involved are the same, so only one picture is required. Smbarnzy 12:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] images

Hey everyone,

I've uploaded the following images,

Image:Aquinas_college_perth_foundation_stone.JPG

Image:Aquinas_college_perth_fascade.JPG

Image:Aquinas_college_perth_hughes_dining_hall.JPG

Image:Aquinas_college_perth_junior_school.JPG

I do not know if is just my pc but the pace seems to have been messed up, I'm off for now :) NOTE: THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN MOVED TO THIS PAGE BECAUSE I ACCIDENTLY PUT IT ON THE WRONG PAGE! symode09 symode09 21:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tuatha shield

How is it that Bryan has won the 2007 Tuatha shield when the school year hasn't started yet? If it is correct, the mechanics of how and when the shield is awarded needs to be explained in the article. —Moondyne 13:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The shield actually starts the year before, with one (or two) event/s from the previous year (2006) contributing to the next (2007) shield, i cant remember which one (possibly house esteddford or academic points)...but thats basically it. Smbarnzy 14:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Image sizes is something to thing about. Per WP:MOS#Images, don't specify image sizes unless you have extreme aspect ratios or need to show detail in the thumb. Unspecified image sizes will default to 180pixels (this can be changed in users' preferences). The house shields is one which you could leave at (say) 300px because of the detail. All the others could go back to unspecified sizes IMHO. If you feel strongly that normal aspect images do need to be a bit bigger, I personally would never go more than about 250px and that would only be for an image which really needs prominence because of it having more important content.

I do like alternating left and right images, but if you start doing it you need to do it consistently - ie. don't go left, right, right, left.

These things are minor I know, but if you want to head towards FA status, reviewers will shoot you down with little things like that. The article is improving nicely. Good work. —Moondyne 04:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image Gallery

There has been a few users suggesting that the image gallery should be deleted, as it will affect our GA nomination - although i think its a good addition of extra information on the college. I think we should have an image gallery on the buildings & infrastructure section with pictures of all of the buildings and infrastrucuture on that relevant page, oppinions wanted... Smbarnzy 10:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Changes & Additions

  • Building Program & Future Developments - This could include the College Masterplan which was sent to all Aquinas families. - Semi-like the Wesley College, Perth page.
  • List of buildings & infrastrucutre at Aquinas College, Perth - pics and all info on a daughter article.
  • Sport at Aquinas College, Perth - All info on sport at Aquinas College.
  • Houses at Aquinas College, Perth - Nice table with the House Shields pic.

[edit] Improvements

Some improvements I think needs to be made...

[edit] Peer Review

From the peer review that has been archived, i have made a short list of all of the problems areas:

  • Expand the sections, each section should say more about it's subject, even if the information is repeated in the other articles.
  • work on researching and writing some articles on the relinks - Riverton Bridge, Paul Keaney (infamous paedophile/child abuser), Redmond Prendiville (youngest person ever to be ordained a catholic Archbishop anywhere in the world I believe), Matthew Gibney (spoke to Ned Kelly just before he was shot at the Glenrowan siege). Those three men are all interesting and notable characters and would add depth to the article IMO. They've been on my to-do list for a while and I'd be happy if someone got them off it for me ;)
  • What is the fee structure and how does it compare with other Perth colleges? There's a suggestion for a useful new article: Perth private school fees. Thats an issue lots of people want to know.
  • What scholarships are on offer?
  • What capital works (ie. building projects) are planned or underway. Colleges always seem to have some big capex projects happening.
  • The opening paragraph(s) should be a brief summary of the article that says all the most important stuff about the school. How would you tell us about the school if you only had thirty seconds to speak?
  • History section is pretty thorough but could flow better. I have a bugbear about normal quotes being marked up was pullquotes. Parts of the history section belong in the location section (e.g. "much of the property is still thickly wooded"), and the affiliations section has nothing to do with history.
  • Location should characterise where it is and what the site is like. It does that pretty well. But the article is about Aquinas, not the peninsula, not the river. Summary style isn't necessary and doesn't work here.
  • Finally, a few questions: What are its values - is it overtly religious? How much does it charge? Is it elite? elitist? How is it rated by the wider community? Is it considered one of the better private schools in WA? Is it thought of as a sporting school that also offers academic programs, or as an academic program that also had a strong sporting tradition? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Smbarnzy (talk • contribs) 11:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sport

The "red-back spider needs to be added into the sports section as it is the symbol of Aquinas College sport, possibly with a picture, i will add it to the list of pictures required. This should include when it was adopted, how, and what it represents. Smbarnzy 11:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, the picture added is not of a high enough standard. There was already a red-back spider image on wikipedia of high quality. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Redback_frontal_view.jpg) --Ali K 02:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] House System

The houses system does not state which year it was introduced, and when each house was introduced. It could also include such things as other systems that the house system is based upon or other such things. Smbarnzy 12:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Uniform

Explanation of the awards, colours and honours system and how it works. What students have to do to get an award and that sort of information Smbarnzy 10:45, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

New sporting uniforms are being introduced, this should be added to the uniform section aswell as the reason why (cost), and the changeover period for the uniforms aswell as when the uniforms are being introduced. Smbarnzy 12:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Student Life

This needs to include student bodies (eg. student representative council) and other such related student bodies represented by the school Smbarnzy 10:47, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Academic Studies

This section should include a paragraph on the OBE debate which is raging in Western Australia and something on THE WACE (West Australian Certificate of Education). Smbarnzy 12:24, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the images should be alternating and larger, it it way too boring, the article needs a bit more "oomf" symode09 09:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I definately agree Smbarnzy 09:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Can I suggest you temporarily switch your screen resolution to 800x600 (there's still lots of people out there with 15 inch monitors) and view the article as they would see it. A 400px wide image takes up half the 800 wide screen, and with the Wikipedia navigation bar on the left (approx 140px), there's not much room left for words to wrap around the image. The article looks plain ugly. —Moondyne 01:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pages that need not exist.

The article still links to some pages that need to be deleted/merged in some way with the article. These include:

I think this needs to happen for the article to become even close to FA standard. Even if merging is agreed upon, it isn't necessary to make the whole article longer. --Ali K 03:06, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

See: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Old Aquinians Hockey Club where the community consensus was 'merge and delete'. Per WP:IAR, I've changed the 1st 3 above to redirects (the 4th already was), and protected the redirects from further editing.
  • Old Aquinians Hockey Club was previously speedy deleted because of a copyvio and then recreated with original content. It does need improvement as is currently borderline non-notable. Unless someone beats me or it is improved significantly, I will be submitting this for an AfD discussion.

I beleive that, these areticles should be added to this article, I really hate those small stub articles, they are not important enough, they are part of the school, anyone who creates them should be shot (just joking, do not quote me) symode09 11:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Image Sizing

The images have had alot of their sizings changed by other users, and for other users with different screen settings it just looks plain ugly, i think the way it is now it just fine, leave comments below regarding this issue. Smbarnzy 11:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

I have removed the Low Quality images, they are unnecesary (spelling :( )

I will replace them with hq ones within a few days

symode09 06:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Removal - Quote

“ All you need is a small bit of light in a dark room to light it up. The same cannot be said for darkness. Darkness will never stop light. It is only the lack of light that will allow darkness in. ”

- Paul Kelly, Religion Teacher

is irrelevant to the topic, and is by a teacher on matters not really related to the school. Smbarnzy 11:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal - Trivia/Achievements Section

  • Aquinas won the 1998 and 1999 state solar car challenge.[1]
  • Aquinas won the 1996 Australian/International solar car challenge.[2]

[edit] References

This article needs more references for some of the small things in it - eg. the history page is all referenced from this one article. Smbarnzy 14:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Getting there. Keep up the good work. Fred 15:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Definitely - since I last looked this article has really come along! When I have time later in the weekend I'll have another look. Orderinchaos78 14:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aquinas Diary 2006 Reference

This reference isn't correct - as there isn't one diary for each year, there is two diaries - for each semester and the semester needs to be stipulated. I have only used the semester 2 diary in my references - but this needs to be ammended. Smbarnzy 10:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible References

[edit] ArticleHistory and project templates

The new ArticleHistory template is slowly being rolled out, with the idea of compressing the templates on the page. It includes peer review events. A show/hide template also exists for wikiproject templates. Gimmetrow 00:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Correct?

Im not sure as to if this statement i correct...

"Initially at CBC Perth only day pupils were enrolled, but due to population growth in Western Australia during the gold rush period, pressure was put on the school to accept boarding students.[11]" - because i thought that the school originally was planned as a boarding school, which is why Brother Regis Hughes went around WA to collect funds to build the school for boarders? I may be incorrect. Smbarnzy 08:44, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal - College Uniform

This section was removed per the peer review.

Aquinas College, like most Australian private schools, requires students to wear full school uniform at all times. The college currently has two set uniforms - the Summer uniform and the Winter uniform..[3]

The Formal Winter Uniform For Yr12 Students
The Formal Winter Uniform For Yr12 Students

In the past, the school has had fund-raising "free dress" days, where boys may wear what they choose to school if they donate a gold coin to the charity (the charity is usually an Edmund Rice charity). [4]

Summer The Summer uniform is worn in terms 1 and 4.[3]

  • Years 8-11 - College grey shorts and collared shirt, with crested pocket, long College grey socks and black shoes. The College jumper may be worn with this uniform if necessary. It is customary to wear this uniform throughout the First Term and in the Fourth Term.[5]
  • Year 12 - As for other years except year 12 wear a white shirt with crested pocket.[5]

Winter The Winter uniform is worn in terms 2 and 3.[3]

  • Years 8-11 - Long grey melange trousers and the College blazer are to be worn with black shoes, grey or dark-coloured socks, grey shirt, tie and blazer, a white shirt may be worn for special occasions.[5]
  • Year 12 - Long grey melange trousers and the College blazer are to be worn with black shoes, tie, white shirt and grey or dark-coloured socks. The optional black jumper may be worn with the blazer but not as an alternative to it.[5]

In 2006, the college announced that it would be introducing new sports uniforms and tracksuits due to the rising price of the materials used in the production of the current uniforms. The new sports uniforms were introduced in 2007 with a two year changeover period. [6]

any enquiries about this edit - dicuss it below or ask me Smbarnzy 08:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal - TC History from History section

The remainder eventually moving to Trinity College, when the St Georges Terrace site closed completely in 1961.[7] The Perth City Council had plans to develop the CBC Perth Site to build an international hotel (the now Duxton Hotel) for the 1962 Empire Games, the site was eventually sold to the Perth City Council for £267,000.[8] Trinity College officially opened on 25th March 1962.[9]

Any probs msg me Smbarnzy 12:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 16th Feb Article Assesment

Wow! You've really improved this article since I took a look at the PSA/JSHAA articles in July last year. Edit it just a little more and I believe you can nominate it for Featured Article status. Auroranorth 11:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

I have found a website with a large array of CBC and Aquinas images, here are a few of the links..

[edit] Userbox

This user attends or attended Aquinas College, Perth.

- Feel free to edit it, if you want.

[edit] DEBATE - Establishment

I am starting a discussion as to when Aquinas College was established/founded - was it 1894 or 1938? please leave comments/opinions below and put newest votes at te end. Smbarnzy 06:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

  • I'm not sure, check ur AC diary, it'll show it there - Symode09
  • Comment - this is a debate as to whether it should be from when CBC was established in 1894 or when it became known as Aquinas Smbarnzy 11:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
  • 1894 and 1938 - Have as 1894 as CBC, 1938 as Aquinas - this would be a fence-sitter, but its how i feel Smbarnzy 12:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Question is this statement in the 2nd paragraph of the lead correctly stating the situation.
In 1937, Christian Brothers College split; with boarders and some day boys going to the newly established Aquinas College,
also is this from Trinity College, Perth correctly stating when it says.
In 1938, St Patricks closed with boarders and some of the day students transferred to the newly established Aquinas College in Salter Point, along with some students from CBC.
Both statement indicate that AC was started in 37-38 and both article indicate that CBC continued at the St Georges Tce site until 62 until those students went to Trinity. What do the official school records say as to when the schools started. As I read both of these they indicate that CBC ceased to operate in 62, Trinity started in 62 and AC started in 37 with both having a historical association to CBC dating back to 1894. Gnangarra 12:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

DISCUSSION CLOSED - AC was est in 1938. Smbarnzy 10:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox - Location

I think that it should be changed from Salter Point, Perth, Western Australia, Australia to Salter Point, Western Australia. It just looks pretty bad, that it has all of those little links and cramps up the infobox, if anyone has a problem with it then msg me Smbarnzy 12:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Couldnt get it to work like that, so ive modified it to be Salter Point, WA, Australia - it looks a tad neater, if anyone can fix it, then please do. Smbarnzy 12:07, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Staff Numbers Reference

I remember seeing it on a webpage the number of staff and threw it into the article (before i knew how to reference properly) and cant find the page again, it is pretty important and needs to be referenced - i remember getting it off a google search. Smbarnzy 12:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flow!

The article is lacking alot of flow, and it is written largely in sentences not in paragraphs. We need an experienced editor to really go nuts here and get the paragraphs to flow! Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

We need some images for the History section - something from CBC definately, and maybe something new that has been constructed. Possibly a picture of the Mike Kinsella Hockey Pavillion on Kennedy Ovals aswell Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Daughter Articles

I think that the Edmund Rice Administration Wing and the Aquinas College Perth Chapel deserve their own articles - they are largely notable within the community, for their architecture and historical significance Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History Section

This needs a massive re-write, alot of the sentences/paragraphs are poorly referenced, and just seem a bit silly. experienced editors required. Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar Errors

Im not too good with English, but i feel that the article has alot of grammar errors, which has been discussed in the Peer Review taking place, and its a major problem if we are going to get this article to GA. Smbarnzy 12:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

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