Talk:Antichrist

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[edit] Barak Obama

Not sure if my computer is possessed, but typing Barak Obama, misspelled as such, redirects to this article for me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.139.67.186 (talk) January 11 2007

A vandal inserted his name recently. It was quickly reverted but the search function is not updated continuously. Apparently it was updated during the vandalism and not again before your search. PrimeHunter 11:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I see a vandal also modified Barak Obama to redirect here. It was also reverted quickly. PrimeHunter 11:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Who/What is the Antichrist

Just to get it up front, i'm not a christian, so i'm not one to know the bible very well. Recently though i was watching a History Channel show that talked about the Antichrist, the coming of his age, and the branding of his mark upon those left behind from the rapture. I was wondering whether the Antichrist is the same person as the Devil, or if he's just one of the Devil's opostles. If anyone knows, i would appreciate your sending me such info.--Deathbacon 03:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

When you read the article you will see that an antichrist is anyone who is against or takes the place of Christ. However, the term is applied to a character in the book Revelation. This is because of similariaties in characteristice. However, there is nothing explicit. Also, in the article there is much speculation on who are what could be the identified as the or an Antichrist. The reformers identified the papacy as the antichrist for a number of reasons. I haven't yet seen any better interpretation. Allenroyboy 05:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move to Anti-Christ

Yesterday User:Brady Heston moved the article from "Antichrist" to "Anti-Christ" with no prior discussion. The edit summary [1] was:

"moved Antichrist to Anti-Christ: This sperate the word and this is the most common way of it's spelling"

Google has 4 times more hits on "Antichrist" than "Anti-Christ" and says "Did you mean: AntiChrist" on the latter. Controversial moves should be discussed on the article's talk page (e.g. said at WP:RM). I think it should be moved back. PrimeHunter 13:53, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I would do it if I knew how. I could find out, but someone else will already know. ^rossnixon 00:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Help:Moving_a_page explains it. The new title is not unacceptable, so I think people should have a few days to respond. PrimeHunter 13:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] article badly messed up

This article is pretty badly messed up. The lead section is really bad. We used to have a better one. Here's an older version that, overall, is more encyclopedic [2]. The current "New Testamet" section plays out one Christian reading of the NT as "what the Bible says" instead of as one viewpoint. It would be easier to revert to an earlier version of the article than to try to get this one back into shape. Comments? Jonathan Tweet 15:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

When I came across this article a couple months ago there was no "new testament" part so I added what is essentially the "new testament' part now. I'd go along with the older version. I'd just like to add that I believe that there really is a true, neutral, 'what the Bible says' viewpoint. However, it is unlikely that everyone will agree on what that viewpoint is. Allenroyboy 15:50, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Develop and review tag

Unless someone objects, I'm going to revert to an earlier version, similar to the link above. I'll wait at least a couple of days. Does anyone know when the earlier version was altered? Jonathan Tweet 18:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Christ vs. Antichrist

Will someone PLEASE make up their mind on whether the usage is hyphenated or not. The main page is Anti-Christ (hyphen), but almost ALL references throughout the article are non-hyphenated. (Even the talk page redirects you to the non-hyphenated article.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.194.173.58 (talk) 17:53, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

The article name was moved back from "Anti-Christ" to "Antichrist" 3 days ago, following the above discussion. Anti-Christ now redirects to Antichrist. Maybe you have to clear your cache. The first hyphen is currently at "In Christian eschatology the Antichrist or Anti-christ ...". This seems OK, but maybe it should be the only hyphen, except if a direct citation used hyphen. PrimeHunter 22:44, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fictional Antichrists

I just saw Fictional Antichrists have their own article with no wikilink from here. Most of it is identical to entries in Antichrist#List_of_Fictional_Antichrists. I think that either Fictional Antichrists should redirect here, or most/all of Antichrist#List_of_Fictional_Antichrists should be "merged" into Fictional Antichrists. PrimeHunter 02:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 666 is the mark of the beast, not the Antichrist

Can someone please tell me where in the entire 13th chapter of Revelation does it mention the word "Antichrist"? Verses 11-18 describe the land beast which the dragon (Satan, according to the text itself) has called forth to help him persecute the church. So the number sixhundred sixty six (yes, it's a single number and not just any three combinations of 6) is the mark of the land beast being described, not the Antichrist referenced in I John 1:18. True, anyone who is opposed to Christ in by deffinition AN antichrist, as both this article and the Bible explain. But there is a difference between AN antichrist and THE antichrist. For centuries people have misinterpreted this passage to think the number of the beast is the number of the Antichrist, and this has especially been fueled in recent years due to popular books and movies. But I believe the article should reflect that this is what people have come to believe from the text rather than what Rev. 13 is actually talking about, as that will only serve to spread the misinterpretation. David Mitchell 21:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

• Remember in math if A = B and B = C and C = D then A = D. Start with Antichrist = Man of Sin. Then Man of Sin = ?? [use search engines or concordances] See where you end up... Allenroyboy 17:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Johnny Rotten under "fictional anti-christs"

Hey hey, I was just wondering about this as the article mentions Johnny Rotten's line "I am an antichrist" under ficitonal anti-christs. where should that be moved to, or should it be removed? DanCrowter 17:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion for merger

There needs to be a major discussion for the merger of Anti-Christ and Antichrist. The two articles hace widely different content, layouts, etc. If a merger is to happen, it needs to be discussed completely over the course of a week or two to give everyone enough time to comment. I have seen that several attempts have been made in the past with little success because of lack of discussion. I also think that the current version of Antichrist needs major cleanup. All of the bolding needs to go or be exressed in a more encyclopedic way. --Mattarata 03:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It is amazing that two pages on the same topic exist in this way, and there really needs to be a merger. There should also be a move of text to Fictional Antichrists from Antichrist#List_of_Fictional_Antichrists. This is a mess, but we need to do it.--Cberlet 03:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Before February 27 2007 Anti-Christ redirected to Antichrist as it should. Then User:Jonathan Tweet (who is unhappy with the current Antichrist) apparently copied an old version of Antichrist (maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AntiChrist&oldid=86198995 from November 7 2006) to Anti-Christ in this edit. I'm not participating in the content discussion but just wanted to explain how we temporarily got two articles. I definitely think there should only be one. PrimeHunter 13:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I have confirmed that User:Jonathan Tweet copied http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AntiChrist&oldid=86198995 to Anti-Christ in this edit (I wonder whether he intended to revert insted of create a separate article). There are few changes from that to the current Anti-Christ. This discussion is effectively about whether to "merge" the current Antichrist with an old revision of the same article. I don't think such a discussion should create the old revision as a separate article (see e.g. Wikipedia:Content forking), and the discussion here is inactive, so I will redirect Anti-Christ (without merging content) here in a few days unless there are protests. People who want to work on Antichrist are of course welcome to look in the article history for things to possibly reintroduce. PrimeHunter 13:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I have made the redirect from Anti-Christ to Antichrist. PrimeHunter 12:53, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

One issue I noticed before dropping the merge tags is that Talk:Anti-Christ was moved/re-directed to this talk page. I could not figure out how to get it back or revert it, so any discussion that occurred there is gone?--Mattarata 08:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Jonathan Tweet (see my above edit) did not create Talk:Anti-Christ which continued to redirect here as it should. I don't think any discussion has been there and then lost. PrimeHunter 13:51, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Magog and George H. W. Bush

Before my edit, the discussion on Magog ended with a reference to the word as a Skull and Bones nickname attributed to current President George W. Bush. With the earlier comment in the paragraph of a false war, the Bush reference smacked more of political commentary than unbiashed encyclopedic scholarship. Still, what's true is true, and the discussion was about Magog.

After doing a bit of digging, the only reference I could find to Bush's Skull and Bones nickname was a 2000 Atlantic Monthly article titled "George W., Knight of Eulogia," by Alexandra Robbins. Robbins writes the following: "William Howard Taft and Robert Taft were Magogs. So, interestingly, was George Bush [Sr.]."

She goes on in the next paragraph: "George W. was not assigned a name but invited to choose one. According to one report, nothing came to mind, so he was given the name Temporary, which, it is said, he never bothered to replace; Temporary is how Bush's fellow Bonesmen know him today. (In recent interviews I asked a number of Bush's Bonesmen classmates about the name and elicited no denials.)"

Ericscot 20:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jose de Jesus

Some guy is going around (has his own article here and everything) saying he's Jesus. Also there's going to be an "outsiders" episode about him tonight. He calls himself the antichirst as well and wears the number of the beast as well as having it tattooed on his arm.Mavrickindigo 19:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti in Greek

ANTI can have several senses: (1) instead of (2) for, as (3) on behalf of (4) for the purpose of

Therefore it is entirely proper for an anti-christ to be someone "as Christ" or "for Christ" in the sense of 'in the place of christ' Allenroyboy 19:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed something

"There is a growing school of thought that this man is Michael Eisner, CEO of The Walt Disney Company from 1984-2005. Michael Eisner turned the Happiest Place on Earth into Mouschwitz, the term coined by Disney employees to characterize what Eisner had done."

This paragraph was posted twice in the article. Since it lacks any sources (and is horribly biased), I took the liberty of removing it. Hopefully, it contributes to the cleanup. 24.78.106.19

[edit] Ronald Reagan

Added (with source) a reference to the once-popular joke/theory that Reagan was the Antichrist. TortureIsWrong 16:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

BigDT moved this section to the "Contemporary Identifications" section, which is fine with me. I reject his comment that it shouldn't be here at all, though, given the plethora of similar information in the article. TortureIsWrong 00:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, in place of and on behalf of. Revelation is the coming of 'christ' or who ever you want to call him...basically it is mans last chance for peace...obviously they'd rather hate me, so in the end you are destroyed. Agnostic, not anihilst.

Thank-you.