Talk:Anti-Fascist Action

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[edit] IRA?

"It is well known for supporting the I.R.A. and two members were convicted of carrying out a I.R.A. bombing."

Is this true? If so it needs inclusion. Sam [Spade] 00:41, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

No it's not true. The reference is to Red Action which is or rather was heavily involved in AFA.

[edit] Euro-nationalism

Euro-nationalism page on Wikipedia - still at Answers.com seems to have dissappeared from Wikipedia. Or is this my incompetence that I can't find it? --BobFromBrockley 13:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Answers.com apparently hasn't updated their mirror for a while. Euronationalism was deleted; see the archived discussion here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Euronationalism. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 14:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AFA Ireland

I've deleted the pov paragraph from this section. I can find no reference on the group's website about them defending "freedom of speech". John Eden 09:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

The article on Antifa seems to cover the same organizations as the broader Anti-Fascist Action does. I believe a merge would be appropriate. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 09:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Anti-Fascist Action is one specific organization, but Antifa is a set of beliefs, so if Antifa is going to be merged, that is not the article to merge it to. I'm going to change the merge message to say Militant anti-fascism, because that's more appropriate. Spylab 11:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
I removed the merging notices altogether. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 12:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
In light of all this, should the external link to British Antifa be removed too? Perhaps it should be added to the Antifa page? BobFromBrockley 14:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I deleted the non-AFA links from this article and added 3 AFA-related links. Spylab 14:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Straw man?

This article looks to contain some "straw man" efforts by far-right editors to discredit the anti-fascist movement - most notably in the supposed "AFA logo" at the top of the article and the caption for it. Looking on Google, I find this logo only features in the article in the external links section and there is no evidence it is official. I am removing it. --SandyDancer 17:30, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

That logo was not invented by far right conspirators. That logo has appeared in ant-racist publications as an official logo of AFA (at least the British AFA). Just one quick example is The "Fuck Fascism" EP by The Oppressed, which is an official SHARP/AFA release.Spylab 17:42, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Writing as a former member of AFA in the UK, I agree with Spylab: that logo was certainly used by AFA in the 1990s. BobFromBrockley 17:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

It is also definately the case that AFA members were heavily involved in IWCA, whether or not latter is "soft on racism". By the way, great editing work Spylab! My only objection would be removal of links to Rolan Adams, Anti-Racist Alliance, Youth Against Racism in Europe, Workers Against Racism and Cable Street Beat. Even if those don't yet have wiki pages, they should! BobFromBrockley 17:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

"This article looks to contain some "straw man" efforts by far-right editors to discredit the anti-fascist movement" Noone needs to discredit the antifascist movement. They are discredited by themselves. I once saw an antifa poster saying that "Greek means murderer". I didn't removed that poster. I left there so that people can see how disgusting antifa's beliefs are. Mitsos 19:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

If you are going to invent an anecdote to back up your prejudices, make it vaguely plausible. And read the guidelines on talk pages - your comment has nothing to do with the article. --SandyDancer 19:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

"invent an anecdote"???? No, it's true. Btw, as you have already understood, my english sucks, so what does "vaguely plausible" means? Mitsos 19:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Many skinheads, or some skinheads

Did the British AFA use to have many or some skinheads amongst their members? Who knows. For now, we shall leave the statement as it is (many) and add a citation-needed-template. I'll ask the editor who inserted it for a source. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 11:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I am no longer an active editor. I advise you to find an authoratative source to quote, as "some" and "many" are both subjective. You should rely on cited experts to be subjective, rather than wikipedes. Sam Spade 13:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the sentence altogether. Also, for the record: I contacted Sam Spade not to use him as a source, but for him to perhaps cite a source. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 14:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request For Comment page about Mitsos

Please take a look at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Mitsos and sign it if you agree with the assessment. Spylab 17:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why changed to disambiguation page?

Why did someone change this article into a disambiguation page? That was not justified at all, and should not be reverted to that state. Spylab 14:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Uh, read what I wrote below while you wrote this. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 14:10, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Splitting (now also discussing merging)

I still think the article should be a disambig page and the main content moved to Anti-Fascist Action (United Kingdom), or, better, a page giving a broad overview of AFA worldwide. Why should Anti-Fascist Action (United Kingdom) be displayed while Anti-Fascist Action (Sweden) is condemned to a country-specific article?

And I still think my removal of the trivial descriptions of other AFAs were justified. If thou dost so wish, we could re-create my disambig, but including that info? Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 14:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Most ofthe groups listed in the disambiguation page don't even have their own articles, and disambiguation pages aren't supposed to have introductory paragraphs. This is not an improvement at all. I've pasted it below so others can comment.Spylab 14:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Fascist Action, (AFA) is a militant anti-fascist organisation that started in the United Kingdom and spread to other European countries.

That they don't have articles doesn't mean they don't exist. But ok, if we ignore my previous edits - all reverted now anyways - what do you think of my argument overall? I e, why should the UK be at the main article but not Sweden? The Antifascistisk Aktion article should be moved in accordance with name guidelines, anyways (I'll do that as soon as I find the specific name guideline to cite). Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 19:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if the groups actually exist, in terms of the topic at hand. What matters on Wikipedia is whether they have information on Wikipedia (backed up by reliable sources). Anti-Fascist Action and Antifascistisk Aktion have different articles because they have different names and are different groups. The AFA article is mostly about the British AFA because that's what information has been added to the article. If you can provide information about the other AFA groups, feel free to add it to the AFA article. Spylab 18:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
No, they're not "different groups". AFA UK and AFA Sweden are different groups, but they are both named "Anti-Fascist Action" in English. But if a disambiguation is not the solution, perhaps a merging? Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 18:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
A disamb page can't disambiguate to non-existant pages can it? But I understand why Jobjörn did this. There is something odd about the current page, as it is not clear whether we are looking at one international organisation (or closely related family of organisations) or at several different organisations. Were the non-UK AFAs copies of or branches of UK AFA? I don't think they were, which makes me wonder if they should all be on the same page. There isn't, say, a Socialist Party page which looks at all the parties with this name. BobFromBrockley 16:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
The 'Antifa' is not one single international organisation, it's just a general term describing political groups that dedicate their time and efforts to fighting fascism and neo-nazis. The means and methods are as diverse as the groups involved, so it's hard to lay down characteristics of an 'Antifa' group. As for the non-UK Antifa groups being copies.. no. In Germany, the term Antifa goes back to the 1920's ("Antifaschistische Aktion"), to the era of frequent fights between communist and nazi streetgangs. In the 1980's, with a resurgence of Neonazism in Germany (and especially after the Reunification), Antifa groups reappeared again. This was in no way connected to the UK, and I would dare say the same about Swedens Antifa, for instance. I know of ties between german, dutch, and scandinavian antifa groups - british antifa groups don't play a role in these networks though. Ok sorry, random ramblings really.. CptSwing 11:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
This comment illustrates part of the problem that surrounds this page: the slippage between term AFA and the term antifa. BobFromBrockley 11:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
A disambiguation page can disambiguate to non-existant pages. And I still think this article should be a disambiguation page, as the international - english - title for all the organisations listed above is "Anti-Fascist Action". It's only a matter of coincidence that Antifascistisk Aktion does not have a translated title while, for example, Central Organisation of the Workers of Sweden is. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 11:14, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging from Antifascistisk Aktion

Oppose - I don't see why we have to even discuss this. They are two different organisations (one in the UK and one in Sweden). // Liftarn

But Anti-Fascist Action is also the english language translation of all the groups listed in Anti-Fascist Action. In fact, I'm not sure the title of Antifascistisk Aktion should be in Swedish: Sveriges Arbetares Centralorganisation was renamed, why shouldn't AFA? And if that happens, conflict arises. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 14:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Facist Action in the UK was a distinct organisation which only had very loose contacts with some groups in the rest of Europe. It seems to me that the only real connection with other organisations listed in these articles is that at the lowest common denominator they are all anti-fascist. AFA (UK) should have it's own page. (Divisive Cottonwood 11:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Afa sectariana

An anonymous editor inserted this:

Various elements of AFA from the anarchist movement and non politically affiliated members did not agree with Red Action's policy of renouncing street violence as a tactic against nazis. Many also felt the IWCA could not operate as a democratic body, due to their experience of Red Action's notoriously autocratic leadership style in AFA. After either leaving AFA or being expelled due to Red Actions political machinations, various ex-members continued to operate well into the nineties under the name No Platform.

Durutti removed it. Although it is written in a very POV way, it is basically true. Can anyone find a No Platform reference to cite? BobFromBrockley 15:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

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