Talk:Anointing of the Sick
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I've received it several times when my health problems got to the point where I thought it would be good to have it done. It did have a comforting effect as I was going through my illness to have this given to me by my parish priest. I think it did help me to get better.
JesseG 03:45, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)
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- Probably due to the Placebo effect. --NoPetrol 22:22, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Nuns
Can't nun administer this sacrement (& Apolistic Pardon) in an emergency? (Alphaboi867 20:10, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC))
- There is no such thing in the Roman Catholic church as an extraordinary minister for Anointing of the Sick. Only a priest or a bishop may administer the sacrament. 68.81.94.170 19:36, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Apostolic pardon and annointing are two things that are different. The first, while it can be given during the Annointing of the Sick, is reserved to those near death and is an indulgence for purgatory. Annointing of the Sick, the Sacrament, is only given by a priest as it involves the care of souls (stict sense) and remits sin. Both actions are reserved to clergy, the second being reserved to priests. Therefore, a nun cannot validly administer the sacament under any circumstances.Davescj 21:02, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Holy Viaticum
Reuters reports "Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said the 84-year-old Pope had been given the "Holy Viaticum" -- communion reserved for those close to death -- and had decided himself not to go to hospital for treatment.". Can someone explain the Holy Viaticum? Thanks. 63.202.80.51 06:07, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- It's a Holy communion given to those in danger of death, most often along with the anointing of the sick. --Sketchee 08:50, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
- "Holy Viaticum" = the Eucharist given to the dying. "Viaticum" = traveling money in Latin, from "via" to go + "cum" with. Viaticum in The Catholic Encyclopedia - Nunh-huh 08:55, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Holy Viaticum: perhaps we need an article on that, or at least explanation of it in this one as the phrase currently redirects here. On another matter, I'm a little concerned about this paragraph:
- While changes were proposed to this sacrament in the wake of the Second Vatican Council, there are actually hundreds of Catholic priests around the world who still offer the traditional form, matter, and intent of the sacrament of Extreme Unction. For a look at what the sacrament is like in its centuries-old form, watch the movie Brideshead Revisited adapted from the novel by Evelyn Waugh.
We need more discussion of how the form these priests offer differs from the new form. The last sentence needs replacing with a description of the centuries-old form. It's no good directing the reader to go and watch a movie to find out what it's like. If anyone knows about all this it would be good if they could add it in. — Trilobite (Talk) 10:01, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I added a link to an article Google turned up on Holy Viaticum. I was curious about the phrase as it was used in an AP article. I'll add a sentence or two to the main article. Brendano 16:50, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Davescj== POV? ==
It gives spiritual aid and comfort and perfect spiritual health, including the forgiveness of sins to Christians who are seriously ill.
While it certainly would give spiritual aid and comfort, I'm not sure that all Christians (especially Protestants) would agree that the ceremony confers "perfect spiritual health" or the forgiveness of sins, especially to an unrepentant recipient. Brendano 16:59, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- No I think it is fine as is. Basically, that is the Catholic understanding of the sacrament's purpose.~
- I'm not sure that sola scriptura-abiding Protestants would even have a problem with this - the forgiveness of sins is explicitly stated in a cannonical book of scripture... they might not call this a sacrament, but that is outside the scope of your argument. I think the only people who would dispute the effects of the anointing are non-Christians. Perhaps a better way to phrase this would be: "The intended ends of the Anointing of the Sick are the giving of spiritual aid...". --Mm35173 17:06, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] A couple of things...
First, this incorporates text copied verbatim from the Catholic Encyclopedia. If you do that, you have to put the {{catholic}} tag in the article. See: Wikipedia:Using Catholic Encyclopedia material.
Second, some of the information presented there on Greek terms is not entirely correct. You have to distinguish between actual Greek ecclesiastical usage and Greek-derived Latinate vocabulary, in which there are often expansions and contractions of meaning. I did a Google search in Greek, and it came up with some Greek documents that use chrisma to refer to chrismation, not the anointing of the sick. I took some of the terms out until I can consult some of my Greek Orthodox literature and be sure they are warranted for inclusion in this article. --Jpbrenna 05:56, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Biblical Reference
The source of the biblical translation needs to be cited. The translation of πρεσβυτέρους to "elders" does not coincide with the tradition of the Church surrounding the minister of the sacrament. Not that the translation of πρεσβυτέρους as elders isn't a valid POV; it just needs to be addressed. Perhaps the Greek text should be included here with a public domain translation (Douay-Rheims, etc.). Latter-day translations could possibly be quoted under fair use. --Mm35173 16:58, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
- Were you just wanting to mention that the word "presbyters" is understood to mean "priests" in Roman Catholic and Orthodox type churches? Wesley 04:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] External links
Could someone please help out with proper descriptions for the external links, per WP:EL and WP:SPAM. Thanks. - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 20:08, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Removed the following:
as not being supporting info for the article per WP:EL; one of the other two needed a minor tweak - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 23:50, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "minority of Anglicans"
I'd challenge the assertion that a minority of Anglicans regard anointing of the sick as sacramental, while admitting that it's fairly difficult these days to determine what constitutes either a majority or a minority of Anglicans.
Furthermore, Article XXV in the Thirty Nine Articles of Religion of 1562 (one of the first and basic faith statements of Anglicanism) explicitly states that Extreme Unction is considered a sacrament. Jason M. Smith 06:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
