Talk:Ang Lee

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[edit] Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

I am an A-Level student currently studying Film as part of my coarse. I have chosen to study Ang Lee, and have only begun research on this remarkable director. From what I have gathered, he appears to be extremely unique, and has been descibed by Peter Matthews (a well respected citique) as a "most mysterious talent".

After watching the breath taking "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" (2000) I was stunned at the sheer beauty and superb visual effects created by Ang Lee. He has a unique way of indulging his audience in a paradise of vibrant images, stunning effects and creating a deep, rich fusion of emotions - from dark, cold tones evoking feelings of sadness, loss and anger; to bright bursts of character creating feelings of joy, happyness and excitement. And while this mad ride goes on, a beautiful and rich love story is unravelled.

Ang Lee is definitly a favourite of mine, and I will take joy continuing my research into this superb man. I hope my breef discussion has persuaded you to want to find out more about Ang Lee, and enjoy the experience of watching his amazing work. I am sure you will not be left dissapointed.

Thank you for reading,

By RiKKi.C

[edit] Suggest 4 possible wiki links for Ang Lee.

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Ang_Lee article:

  • Can link realism: ...medic]] tone which marks a break from the tragic historical realism which characterized Taiwanese filmmaking after the end of t...
  • Can link bachelor's degree: ...end of the [[martial law]] period in the 1990s. He holds a bachelor's degree in theater from the [[University of Illinois]] and a master...
  • Can link master's degree: ...degree in theater from the [[University of Illinois]] and a master's degree from [[New York University]]'s Tisch School of the Arts, wh...
  • Can link Tisch School of the Arts: ...nois]] and a master's degree from [[New York University]]'s Tisch School of the Arts, where in [[1984]] he made a thesis film called ''[[Fine Li...

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:22, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Adjective

According to Google, the phrase "ethnic Chinese" is not often used to describe this director. The term "Taiwanese" is used more often, since he was born in Taiwan.[1] [2] Shawnc 10:34, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm curious. does anyone know where ang lee stands on the whole independence/reunification/status quo thing with regards to China?

  • He's not a politician, why bother? 71.108.234.91 19:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Some Taiwanese don't even consider themselves Chinese. Some even consider themselves Japanese more than anything (e.g. Lee Dung-hui, ex-prez of Taiwan).
      • That's true. I've met some Taiwaneses who were offended when I referred them as Chinese. These people wanted Taiwan to be an independent country and they wanted to distant themselves from anything Chinese. Since it is unclear what Ang Lee's political views are, it is safer to call him Asian or Taiwanese. Kowloonese 02:05, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
      • And what does Lee Dung-hui has to do with Ang Lee? They share the same last name? :-) As an international film maker, Lee wouldn't really want to be involved with all these political stuff. Additionally this piece of information is really not relavent, he's not a politician, and we surely don't want to put something that's gonna bring him troubles right :-) (Lee was born when Taiwan is under Japanese ruling, can't really argue that someone born in an American British colony to indentify himself as British huh?) Kenimaru 23:01, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
        • The example is to point out that calling Ang Lee a "Taiwanese" can never be wrong, but calling him "Chinese" is dependent on his politcal view. Do you want to take chance when writing an encyclopedia article? Kowloonese 09:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
          • That's exactly the point. Granted that calling him a "Taiwanese" is always correct, there are individuals that would feel offended by that, and went ahead and make him a "Chinese," see my last edit on the main article. Personally I would just drop this and remove the adj. to avoid further senseless vandalism, it's sad that I'm forced to do this, but that's just how I dealt with things like these. Kenimaru 20:52, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

221.127.194.86 please stop chaging "Asian" to "Chinese." Fact is, Asian includes Chinese, and he IS the first Asian to win such award. If you want to be specific, he is from Taiwan, thus Taiwanese is the most accurate description. It's very obvious what ethnicity that Ang Lee belongs to, the significance is more about that he's a non-American/European. Of course, discussion is welcome. Kenimaru 06:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. saying he is asian does not mean that he is japanese, either, as someone tried to say in reverting earlier.--B.U. Football For Life|Talk 06:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
  • following the thread, I guess Taiwanese and Asian will both appropriate adjective for him, but maybe not Chinese. For Taiwanese, I think no one will be offened by be recognized as a person from their birthplace. Also, as to Asian, I think it is broad adjective and nothing more than that. For Chinese, the issue has expressd clearly in above thread.

[edit] Dartmouth

From article: He was a Visiting Fellow at Dartmouth College in 2001 where he premiered Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon This is confusing or incorrect since the film premiered in 2000. The clause has been removed until reference is cited. Shawnc 11:04, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Photo

NNDB.com has a good shot of the man, which might be included in this article.

[edit] Moved to Lee Ang

You may have notice that Ang Lee redirects to Lee Ang. This is because I've moved it and as he's a Chinese, it is better to name the article Lee Ang, rather than the former. The main reason is in Chinese culture, the family name is in front, and the given name is behind. Like Li Bai is not Bai Li or Mao Zedong is not Zedong Mao, this go the same for Lee Ang. --Terence Ong 09:49, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Oppose. I think this is the sort of change that should have been discussed on the talk page before making the move. At any rate, I think it should remain "Ang Lee" since that is how he is widely known to worldwide audiences (particularly those who would be reading an English-language encyclopedia). -- MisterHand 12:21, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Doesn't anyone respect Chinese culture here? You may like to revert my move if you wish. --Ter

ence Ong 12:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Oppose I respect Chinese culture, however his most common English name is Ang Lee and redirecting to Lee Ang would be confusing for most readers. Do what is right on Chinese Wikipedia, but Ang Lee should be the norm here. And if I'm wrong, good luck changing all the other articles on Chinese people in Wikipedia -- CHANLORD [T]/[C] 12:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I somehow respect this decision, I will revert the move. --Terence Ong 13:07, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Done, reverted back to Ang Lee. --Terence Ong 13:10, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose Ang Lee lives in the US and he uses his name as Ang Lee, not Lee Ang. Many Chinese Americans do not follow the Chinese culture in the US because it is not worth the effort to educate a quarter billion Americans who are only aware of the First name-Last name convention. I will bet that 9 out of 10 US highschool kids would address Mao ZeDong as Mr. Zedong. Chinese people who live here in the US need to go with the flow. Mr. Lee is no exception. Kowloonese 01:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Hey, as another 13 year old, lemme chime in. I'm full-blood American, 1/2 Irish, 1/2 Italian with a percentage point of German. Why I think we see Mao Zedong and Li Bai is because they were known that way. Anyone looking up the winner for Best Director will recognize "Ang Lee" but not necessarily "Lee Ang." It's just what they are most commonly referred to, yet I note that culture is also important. Sean (talk || contribs| esperanza)) 02:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Well, European languages usually puts the last name in the later, but Asian languages usually put the family name first. You can do the same thing in English if you want to put the last name first, but I believe the format is "Last_Name (comma) First_Name," so it would be, say, "Jordan, Micheal." In the case of Yao Ming, his last name is Yao, and I don't think people would mess that up. 71.108.234.91 19:36, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Please refer to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese): "The encyclopedia should reference the name more familar to most English readers." So if someone is known to "Ang Lee", we use Ang Lee, or vice versa. "Ang Lee" is more common by 40:1, as suggested by Google, so that's the one to use. Shawnc 20:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion

This article could use a lot more bio and a lot more filling out. Presently it is a short blurb with a list. Reboot 08:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Well, Ang Lee had a set back before he start making good films (Pushing Hand), and that he stayed home and raise the kid. There isn't that much to talk about about his bio. There are several Chinese refs down at the bottom, maybe someone would translate that and put it in. 71.108.234.91 19:38, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template

The template is messed up, someone please fix it, as I am not sure how, thanks. Kenimaru 02:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] first "blank" director to win best director

i would say we should stick with first asian director to win best director. chinese and japanese are subsets of asian. Asian does not imply japanese.--B.U. Football For Life|Talk 06:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Agree. As I've explained, the whole point is that he's the first non-American/European director to win, thus Asian would be a better fit (in contrast to American/European). It's quite obvious that he's Taiwanese and not Japanese, and that's exactly how the Academy introduced him. Kenimaru 06:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I WILL request a LOCK on the page if the person who is changing the content keep REFUSING to discuss about it here. First Asian, by definition, would automatically be the first person of any Asian nationality to win. No one will think Ang Lee is Japanese or Indonesian, as the bio CLEARLY states that he is from Taiwan. I would hate to bring in this, but somehow I think the editing IP, which is from Hong Kong, seems bear political/racial bias in this issue, thus not complying the NPOV policy of Wikipedia. I'm pulling the stats off Google, there are 930 hits for ang lee "first chinese", but 29,600 hits for ang lee "first asian", that's a ratio of 1-to-32, pretty much says it there. Kenimaru 16:36, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Remember that whether he is "first" depends on how you classify him. So what you put in "blank" makes a difference. Say if "blank" were literally blank, then the statement becomes invalid because he is definitely NOT the first director to win. When you change the category from "Chinese director" to "Asian director", will the validity of "first" title changes. If yes, the narrower category should be kept in order to keep "that" title. If no, the broader category should be used because it is better to be the "first" in the universe than be the "first" in your own bedroom. Kowloonese 21:43, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Adding my two cents (in the hope of generating some consensus and ending the edit war). It should be "First Asian" for the reasons stated by Kowloonese. -- MisterHand 22:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Second that, though my stance is already quite clear. Kenimaru 23:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Why not just say he's the first non-white director to win? That's an even more general and impressive achievement. -- ToastyKen 02:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I see your point, but what's "white?" Jewish people look white to me, are they white? The other issue is the source, because I haven't seen him being addressed, this way...please help. Kenimaru 10:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Citations are important and should be provided. As per Wikipedia:No original research: "Articles may not contain any unpublished... statements, concepts, ...or any new analysis or synthesis of published data, statements..." Shawnc 21:08, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Though I don't remember the citation, but I remember during an interview, he said himself as a person from Taiwan but not have American citizenship. In the same interview, he added that he is working in U.S. legally by other legal status. I wonder in Wikipedia, when we refer someone as American, which defination we take? Since American could be define in broad way, that can even include many people work in this land but don't have legal status. Last, for a living person, I would prefer to respect his/her opinion on this subject, however, I don't have better citation of how he adress this issue.--75.10.16.75 21:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Lee is an US permanent resident for years. Kenimaru 23:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Climbing the Mountain

I've extensively rewritten this section, which hopefully reads better now. Three highlights: (a) I've removed "homosexual" (previously "bisexual") from "two Wyoming cowboys." The context is clear enough without either word, which otherwise sounds redundant and (worse) pejorative. (b) I've also moved the sentence on Lee's Best Director award to end of paragraph, which is rhetorically stronger and puts the emphasis on Lee himself. The old version ended with "Brokeback" losing to "Crash" and all the controversies that generated. (c) I've restored the reference to Lee's skills in depicting human emotions, which the last edit removed. It seems to be an important point to me. Your thoughts? swan 05:47, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wu Xia and Superhero

I've rewritten the section with two things in mind: (a) The statement that "Crouching Tiger" helped introduce Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige to the West was misleading. They had been known to the West for almost two decades. It's more accurate to say "Crouching Tiger" made it acceptable (and fashionable) for other Chinese directors to make high production-value Wu Xia films for Western audience. (b) Roger Ebert loved "Hulk," calling it one of the two best Superhero films (along with "Spiderman II") of all time. But crowds who consumed the superhero genre probably found the psychological subtext between father and son too complicated or irrelevant. This latter point, however, I hesitated to make explicit in an encyclopia entry. Still, more could be said about "Hulk" imho. swan 06:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

  • To Zeus1234: Your edit comment, "Fixed more grammatical errors and bad sentances reintroduced by Skezar after I edited them," is ad hominem. If you compare your old version with my rewrite, you'd notice (a) I've corrected a number of YOUR mistakes; (b) some bad sentences were left over from your edit and were not "reintroduced" by me; and (c) my rewrite was extensive and was in no way based on your version. While I appreciate your correction of my typos, good copyediting does not need attacking someone else to build your own credibility. swan 02:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
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