Talk:Andre Agassi

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[edit] Political Stance

A quick google search brings into question the assertion that Agassi is a "staunch republican". "http://www.newsmeat.com/sports_political_donations/Andre_Agassi.php" indicates that he has given money entirely to Democrats. Dzmc 16:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't know how this matters, but I do recall him being asked about Bush/Kerry during election time, and he said something to the effect that he could not take another 4 years with Bush.

-True. He said something to the effect that he would vote for Kerry twice if he could. I remember him describing himself as "independent" on those Nike commercials with Sampras from 99-00. I think "independent/slightly leaning left" is probably the best description of his politics. Intrestingly, he is on friendly terms with Bill Clinton, as well as, with Barbra and George H.W. Bush. Yashin79

[edit] Information

Moved from the main article: What were Agassi's earliest major tennis victories? 1992 Wimbledon Did he play tennis as a child? Yes Where was he born? Las Vegas Where did he grow up? Las Vegas Where did he go to school? Private elementary school? If you know the answers to these questions, then you can edit this page and add them now! Just hit 'edit this page' below.-- Taku 02:26 12 Jun 2003 (UTC) Chris is really gay.

[edit] Ethnicity

I removed the posting about the place of birth of Mike Agassi as some village near Urmia. It is utterly untrue and please to dont revert to that paranoia again. Andre Agassi see himself as an Assyrian ethnically so why is it written "An Armenian-American". I shall change this since Andre Agassi decides if he wishes to be seen as an Assyrian-American etc.--Sargon 16:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Hello, Sargon. Wikipedia policy is that there is no original research allowed (Wikipedia:No_original_research). If you wish to re-add your information you have to cite your source. Pasboudin 00:26, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

To start with his aftername is Assyrian since there is a singer "Evin Agassi" whos also Assyrian.

AND THERE IS MY DAD WHO IS AGHASSI AND HE IS 100 PER CENT ARMENIAN

And here is the answer to all the qustions raised here. Please read this and close this stupid discussion. The interview clearly shows that only Mike's great great great great grand father was assyrian. He is only 5 per cent assyrian, the rest is armenian.

INSIDE TENNIS: Tell us about your new book MICHAEL AGASSI: I knew so little about my grandparents, so I wrote the book for my children and grandchildren. IT: You came directly to Chicago from Iran? MA: No, I stayed on Ellis Island in New York for two or three weeks, and then went to Chicago. IT : For many immigrants Ellis Island could be a harrowing experience. MA: There was no one I could talk to. I didn't know English. I had to wait for my papers to go through. I was alone. I had $34 or $35. The bus ticket [to Chicago] was $22. When I reached Chicago, I had $2 in my pocket. IT: What were you thinking on the bus as it went through Pennsylvania and Ohio? MA: I didn't know where I was going. I saw the big American cities and thought of my country which was all desert with nothing but grain. IT: Why did you leave Teheran? MA: For a chance to go to school in Chicago. I went to the YMCA high school and Roosevelt University. IT: How long did it take for you to become conversant in English? MA: I still don't talk well. . IT: You speak beautifully. What do you know about your grandparents? MA: My great great great great grandfather was Syrian. He married an Armenian woman. Their son married an Aremnian. Their son married an Armenian. Their son married an Armenian. My father married an Armenian.

And here is the link. Please finish this stupid talk. Yours Armenian_nj

http://www.insidetennis.com/1004_first_serve.html

Moreover, we are not discussing here what is Iranian what is Persian is it a race or ethnicity etc etc, cultural differences between armenian communities etc. We argue about Andre's ethnicity. And he is Armenian because his father is all Armenian.His mother is American. Das sagt alles.

Andre Agassi is not armenian. His dad was an Assyrian from Iran, from the city of Urmi(lake urmia). he is Assyrian, or sometimes called ashurian. the name Agassi is a famous Assyrian last name, not Persian or Armenian. he says hes Armenian, and actually sells out his own race because no one knows what an Assyrian is. thats lame, but he does it. his dad is well known threw the Assyrian community in los angeles, they even stop by rarely to our conventions. so sorry to burst ur bubble, but agassi is not an Armenian name and wasnt cut off for any reason. CAN YOU PROOF FROM ANY SOURCE THAT MIKE WAS BORN IN URMIA? ACCORDING TO THE BOOK HE WROTE ABOUT HIMSELF HE WAS BORN IN TEHRAN TO ARMENIAN WOMEN NUNIA FROM TURKEY AND DAVID AGHASSI FROM UKRAINE KIEV WHOSE GREATGREATGRANDFATHER ONLY WAS ASSYRIAN. ALL MY BEST SYMPATHIES AND REGARDS TO ASSYRIAN PEOPLE WHO SHARE THE SAME RELIGION WITH ARMENIANS(MONOPHYSITE ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY) BUT EVEN THAT DID NOT PLAY ANY ROLE IN MIKE'S LIFE. HE WAS BORN TO A POOR ARMENIAN FAMILY AND BECAUSE AMERICAN PROTESTANT MISSIONERS HELPED HIS FAMILY AND HIM TO BECOME A SPORTSMAN HE CHANGED HIS RELIGION TO PROTESTANTISM WHICH IS NOT THAT TYPICAL FOR ARMENIANS OR ASSYRIANS. THEREFORE THERE IS NOTHING COMMON BETWEEN ASSYRIAN PEOPLE AND MIKE AGHASSI BUT ONE FAR ASCENDING ANCESSTOR. HIS ETHNICITY IS ARMENIAN.HE SPEAKS ARMENIAN AND HIS CLOSEST FRIEND IS ARMENIAN BILLIONAIR KIRK KIRKORIAN WHO HE NAMED ANDRE KIRK AGHASSI AFTER. (http://www.zindamagazine.com/html/archives/1996/zn081296.html) "Does Mr. Tower's characterization of Assyrians include himself? No Assyrian is small and insignificant! However, some of us fail to realize that we can not afford to deny our heritage. We are too small a nation and are easily drawn into the notion of the "Great Melting Pot." There is no shame in wanting to preserve our numbers. There is nothing hypocritical or racist about that. We have very few well known Assyrians. We need those who are all international figures to instill pride in the rest of us. Rather than being a role model for our youth, people like Andre Agassi cause quite a bit of confusion. How is it that this "Armenian" or whatever person has an Assyrian father who has been a regular at the Assyrian Olympics and the State Convention held in San Jose? How is it that the Assyrian father of this tennis superstar expresses his hope that Andre will attend the next Assyrian event? We certainly did not expect Mr. Andre Agassi to take time away from his busy schedule to attend our functions. In light of the above, we have a right to question this and clarify this issue as it is surely not an isolated one. Nationality is not a choice. We are born into a particular nation. Maybe Mr. Tower may have the urge to belong to the Armenian nation one day, and the Zulu nation the next. But the fact remains that a person carries his or her father's name and nationality, or identifies himself by the nationality of both parents. Mr. Tower please open your eyes to the Assyrian situation. Assyrians are neither blind, nor racist, nor small and insignificant. However, if you really think so, you should not even be subscribing to Zenda, whose main focus is the Assyrians nation. --Sargon 20:04, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Armenians believe that he cut the name from "Agassian", so the last name really can't be used her to determine ethnicity. All you've done is copy and pasted a post to a BBS, and a snippet from an Assyrian weekly online newsletters. These aren't reliable sources. Pasboudin 00:05, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

We're already washed up as a race.Doesn't matter if you want to cut off Andre Agassi as an Assyrian even if he is on.Hes 100% Assyrian now do what you want I dont care about this Armenian propaganda about Agassi being an Armenian.1000s of Assyrians have the name Agassi so theres no doubt that is an Assyrian name.--Sargon 11:38, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Lets just call him Asian-American and be done with it.--Greasysteve13 11:51, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Agassi's father is Armenian and I propose the article say as much when it says he's an Iranian citizen. I think being an Armenian from Iran is a significant ethnic difference and should be mentioned sooner rather than later - I don't know what the big battle and debate is over. What's the fear of putting this information up front? I am pasting a bit of a 1996 interview from Inside Tennis Magazine below that is relevant to his "identity" --RaffiKojian 04:02, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

THE PRODIGAL SON

INSIDE TENNIS: You come from a wonderful, culturally rich heritage. What does it mean to be Armenian?
ANDRE AGASSI: My father basically raised us American and as I got older, I found myself very interested in my heritage and background. One day I would like to head over to that part of the world and really get a chance to see where it is that I came from. Every day on the tour makes it difficult to take that kind of time but I'm very curious about my roots.
INSIDE TENNIS: Is there a quality in Armenian culture that you can see in yourself?
ANDRE AGASSI: It's tough to say, because my understanding of Armenians is based on my father and just a few people that are in my life. It's tough for me to pinpoint one thing.--RaffiKojian 04:02, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

So who exactly objects to the ethnicity being listed in the beginning (which is normal when writing the "early life" section of a bio) and why? I don't think you can just hijack an article like this without very legitimate reason. --RaffiKojian 03:20, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, first, we are talking about Agassi's father. The sources say that his father is an Iranian of Armenian and Assyrian ethnicity. What specifically do you find wrong with the article layout? In the ethnicity section it does mention both Armenian and Assyrian. I like the wording where it states "Mike Agassi is an Iranian of Armenian and Assyrian ethnicity", it's very descriptive and gives you everything about him to please all. Do you suggest we move this to the top of the article so it mentions everything up top? The only problem I have with calling him Iranian-Armenian is that we're leaving out the Assyrian side. But by simply stating he is Iranian we can include them both with one word up top, and then a bit more descriptive later. Remember, both Iranian-Armenians and Iranian-Assyrians are still Iranian George McFly 16:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think that sentence you like, that his father is from Iran and has Armenian (and according to you Assyrian ancestry - which I thought was from Andres mothers side) ancestry, should go at the top. Yes, I realise that Armenians from Iran are Iranian too, and Armenians from Ethiopia and Lebanon and Iraq and India and France are those citizens, too... but for Armenians in the Diaspora, who are usually descendents of the Armenian Genocide, their ethnicity is a bit more important that to others. They identify with their ethnicity more than usual, especially in countries like Iran where, as Christians, they have a seperate legal status. --RaffiKojian 02:48, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with merging the two sections into one if you can word it right. As for the Assyrian aspect, if you don't find the source credible then take it out and just call his dad "Iranian of Armenian ethnicity", I was just looking through the article's history and it seems as though some people were angered when "Assyrian" was removed. Also, I want to note that Armenians in Iran have the same legal status as anyone else, if not more. Alcohol is forbidden in Iran for everyone but Christians and other non-Muslims, for example. And the Armenians who are in Iran now, are not there due to the Armenian Genocide, they have lived in Iran since the before the 1800's, so they are just as Iranian as anyone else in the country. In fact, I've heard from a lot of them that some Armenians don't accept them and call them Iranians. Regardless, if you want to mention everything up top, go for it George McFly 15:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

My father used to be a professional boxer in Iran and knew Adre's father, and he tells me that he was a general Iranian-Armenian. I can not provide any sources for this but to be honest I find this hilarious that people might want to remove that his father was Iranian. I wish I knew who would want this and why --- K a s h ^{Talk | email} 20:13, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Kashk, I haven't seen anyone try to remove that his father is Iranian, so I'm not sure what you are referring to. I also am not trying to remove Assyrian. All I am saying is that his father was Iranian of Armenian ethnicity, and I think this should be mentioned at the same time as being from Iran! That's all. --RaffiKojian 03:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

McFly, what you are saying is exactly what I said about Armenians legal status. It is different! I did not say better or worse, I said "different". They also get Armenian members of parliament (one or two, I forget) set aside that they choose themselves. It is true that most Armenians in Iran were not there due to the genocide, but many are they due to forced deportation from Jugha/Julfa to New Julfa in Isfahan. As for most Armenians not accepting this or that, many old Armenians love to perpetuate divisions, but I doubt ANY would in any seriousness say Armenians from Iran are not Armenians! --RaffiKojian 03:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

1. His father is of Armenian AND Assyrian ethnicity. He tells the world/the media only about his Armenian side, because nobody would know what he is talking about if he said Assyrian. HIS FATHER IS ALL ARMENIAN.ONLY GREATGRANDFATHER WAS ASSYRIAN.HIS GRANDFATHER DAVID WAS ARMENIAN FROM KIEV UKRAINE. MIKE AGHASSI'S MOTHER NUNIA, DAVID;S WIFE WAS ARMENIAN FROM TURKEY. Also, I want to note that Armenians in Iran have the same legal status as anyone else, if not more.' Not true at all. They have "special" laws for Armenians and Assyrians. For example, there blood is worth only 1/7th that of a muslim. The list goes on, like if Andrea's father had his kid in Iran and divorced a muslim wife, then he would have no custody of his child. Chaldean 13:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Another thing, His father Mike Agassi is an Iranian of Armenian and Assyrian ethnicity, born in the Assyrian village of Saralan, near Urmia, Iran.[3] HE WAS BORN IN TEHRAN AND NOWHERE ELSE, HE WROTE ABOUT IT IN HIS BOOK AGHASSI STORY. GO AND READ IT INSTEAD OF SPREADING YOUR BULL-T HERE.

When someone says "Iranian", he is reffering to Iranian people. This sentence is somewaht misleading (despite magically being linked to Iran instead.) We mentioned Iran, as in "born in Urmia, Iran" but why do we have to label him as "Iranian"? Chaldean 13:04, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I hate to break this to you, but you're pretty ill-informed about Iran. Actually, I don't know if what you said even makes sense. I would challenge you to provide a source, but we're not discussing Iran here, so no reason to waste my time. why do have to label him as Iranian?, maybe because he is Iranian? that would be my best guess. What kind of question is that anyway? I don't think anyone doubts him being Iranian. Questions are being raised whether or not he is Assyrian. I already stated how i feel above, so if people don't find that source as credible, i have no problem removing Assyrian from the article, and i also have no problem leaving it in and merging the two sections (early life & ethnicity). My only problem was calling him Iranian-Armenian if in fact he is indeed also Assyrian, does anyone have a source that people will view as credible? George McFly 16:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

maybe because he is Iranian? He is not ethnically Iranian. What part of this you dont get? does anyone have a source that people will view as credible? 1. Agassi is Assyrian not Armenian. Like for example the Assyrian singer Evin Agassi [1] or the football playerAlex Agase. 2. As for "credible" source, Armenian sources say he is of Assyrian ethnicity as well [[2]] Now go away Chaldean 01:40, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I would like to point out that first of all Chaldean has a very strong point in that in the Near and Middle East, you identify not so much with the nation state you belong to, but the nationality/language/religion you are born with. An Iranian is proud to be Iranian, just like and Armenian is proud to be Armenian in Iran, a Kurd Kurdish, an Azeri Azeri, an Assyrian Assyrian, etc. Otherwise, these minorities would have intermarried and disappeared centuries or even millenia ago! So McFly, you do need to understand that the approach is very different than in the west where you voluntarily move to a country and become "one of them". So an Armenian in America can be from Iran, China, Ethiopia, or Canada, but they call themselves "American-Armenians". Now, Chaldean, you are wrong when you say Armenians do not use the name Aghassi - which they certainly do. In addition I believe their name in this case was originally Aghassian. And in addition to that Armenians also say he is part Assyrian - but as I said I think that comes from Andres mothers side. So people, let's digest all this and just make this clear in one sentence in the start of the "bio" section! --RaffiKojian 17:37, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

MY GRANDFATHER IS AGHASSI HE IS FROM IRAN AND HE IS ALL ARMENIAN.BY THE WAY SOMEBODY MENTIONED HERE THAT MIKE AGHASSI ATTENDS ASSYRIAN CHURCH.THIS IS TOTALLY UNTRUE.EVEN BEING AN ARMENIAN HE IS A PROTESTANT ARMENIAN AND NOT ORTHODOX ARMENIAN, THEREFORE HE CAN NOT ATTEND ASSYRIAN CHURCH SINCE IT IS ALSO AN ORTHODOX MONOPHYSITE CHURCH. GUYS PLEASE DO NOT B-T HERE.

but as I said I think that comes from Andres mothers side. if you read the article you would notice that his mother is of American origin :) Chaldean 02:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Really? American? Ummm, I missed that completely! Well then unless she's Assyrian-American (not terribly likely), it's also on the dad's side... interesting. Well, this still works for me: "His father Mike Agassi is an Iranian of Armenian and Assyrian ethnicity".... --RaffiKojian 02:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Andrea's mother is American, his father came from an predominatly Assyrian villages, but he had one or two grandparents being Armenian as well. Andrea's father has been spotted many times in Assyrian Churches in Chicago. HELLO! FIRST OF ALL THEIR FAMILY IS PROTESTANT , SO THERE IS NO WAY MIKE COULD HAVE ATTENDED ASSYRIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH IN YOUR CITY. MIKE AGASSI IS ALSO PROTESTANT. HE WAS CONVERTED BY AMERICAN MISSIONERS IN TEHRAN. Mike Agassi is not an Iranian. He was born around Urmia, Iran..isn't this enough? And look at this - List of Iranian Americans - they got Andrea Agassi listed as a Iranian...HOW? This is insane, so Andrea's children, his grandchildren will always be stapped as "Iranian" ? This is insane. He is not one bit Iranian. His name should be removed from that list. Chaldean 03:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you not know that Iranian is not an ethnicity? Iran is a multi ethnic country and Armenians and Assyrians from Iran, are Iranian. There is a difference between Armenians from Iran and Armenians from Armenia, the same way there is a difference between Persians from Iran and Persians from Afghanistan. An Afghani Persian isn't Iranian, and an Iranian Armenian isn't Armenian. That's why it is written that Mike Agassi is an "Iranian of Armenian and Assyrian Ethnicity". Chaldean, there is no doubt that he is Iranian, i don't think anyone is debating that, especially since he represented Iran in the olympics. That's like saying that someone born to Armenian Parents in America isn't American, It just doesn't make sense. So if Andre Agassi's mother was Armenian as well, you wouldn't consider him American?

Regarding him being Assyrian, it doesn't matter if someone shares the last name, that doesn't prove anything. You need to provide a credible source or give it up as you are the only one who has a problem with the way it is currently written George McFly 05:00, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

There is a difference between Armenians from Iran and Armenians from Armenia, the same way there is a difference between Persians from Iran and Persians from Afghanistan What on EARTH are you talking about?

Afghani Persian isn't Iranian What is an Afgani Persian? Are you reffering to Pashtuns? If so, then they are Iranian..who says they are not?

Afghan Persians are Tadziks who are a Persian group. Tadziks also have their own coutry which used to be part of the USSR. But there are far more Tadziks in Afghanistan than in Tadjikistan.

That's why it is written that Mike Agassi is an "Iranian of Armenian and Assyrian Ethnicity". The sentence is misleading, because an Iranian usually is connected with Iranian people...in that same sentence we mentioned he was born in Iran, and that should be enough. So lets say a Turk was born in Germany but now leaves in England. Are we going to say "he is German of Turkish ethnicity, and was born in Berlin, Germany" -- That doesn't make any sence!

Chaldean, there is no doubt that he is Iranian, He was born in Iran, but his not "Iranian", he was a citizen of Iran. Is a Turk born in Germany considered German?

source or give it up I gave you sources, Armenian sources,

Anyways, I wont touch it, but dont think I will stay quiet if you delete his Assyrian ethnicity from the page. Chaldean 14:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Chaldean, not that I don't believe you per say, but I really want a reliable source regarding any Assyrian heritage. Please don't say his father says he's Armenian because people don't know who Assyrians are or that someone saw him walk past an Assyrian Church in LA.--Eupator 15:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[source] and besides, I dont understand why everyone is demanding a source when there is ALREADY a source on the sentence? Did anybody even bother checking that? And no it is not an Assyrian source, its an Iranian source! What is with people these days? They want to argue, but dont want to even read and see what the situationt is. [User:Chaldean|Chaldean]] 15:57, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I saw that source, Chaldean. Remember to assume good faith. The problem with that is that it's not verifiable and is coming from an anon and for all we know is based on hearsay versus his father clearly stating in an interview he's born to Armenian parents. Nothing about Assyrian heritage was ever uttered by Andre or his father. Once again it is not far fetched but we require solid proof.--Eupator 16:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I apologize for coming too harsh. So let me get this straight, you wont accept nothing unless it came right out of his mouth? So where has Mike Agassi has ever said he is an Iranian? So let get another thing straight; everything is not considered a source, unless it comes from an interview/ie coming right out of that persons mouth? So are we going to delete Tommy Lee Greek backround unless we can find an interview mentioning his Greekness? Are we going to do that with every single page with wikipedia? Chaldean 02:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Armenian

Agassi is listed as Armenian on LIST OF ARMENIANS...my Armenian friends tell me he is Armenian background that will do me. In the media he was often even mistaken as Italian due to the last name sounding Italian, this would often be corrected as "His real name is Aggasian and he is of Armenian background." Why would so many people get it wrong??? ....RE Iran... Is it possible that his father is Armenian but was born in Iran...many Armenians have lived in Iran for hundreds of years....I have never heard of him being Assyrian, that might be Assyrian POV. I have only heard that hes Armenian...Maybe someone should ask him.

Evergreen

This is an utterly insane thread. This is NOT an article about Mike Agassi. It's an article about his son, an American tennis player. I was plenty shocked to see an Iranian flag included in the "Country" category, given that Agassi is later quoted as saying he's never stepped one foot in that country. The entire point of American citizenship is that we all derive our genetic roots from another nation and - like Agassi - usually from more than one. "American" is no more an ethnicity than "Iranian", and to scrutinize how much of this man's DNA saw time in Armenia, Assyria or France or anywhere else is dubious at best. We're not mapping the human genome here folks - we're describing an athelete.--63.139.103.98 19:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 8 possible wiki links and 2 possible backlinks

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Andre_Agassi article:

Can link prize money: ...yer ([[1986]]-). As of 2004, he has won over $25 million in prize money and achieved a number 1 ranking on the [[Association of Ten...
Can link seven days: ...p, Andre and his siblings had to hit 3,000 balls every day, seven days a week. Mike had Andre practice with [[Ilie Nastase]] and [...
Can link binge-eating: ...d fabricated" statements: Brooke was undergoing counseling, binge-eating and taking pills; Agassi "lashed into" Brooke and he and Br...
Can link elder statesman: ...erged as a gracious and thoughtful athlete, something of an elder statesman. After winning a match, he bows and blows a two-handed kiss...
Can link Olympic gold: ...on]], [[Rod Laver]] and [[Fred Perry]]. He has also won the Olympic gold medal in singles at [[Atlanta]] in [[1996]]. Agassi has rep...
Can link Michael Stich: ... 6:7, 6:4, 6:4, 1:6, 6:4 1994 U.S. Open Michael Stich 6:1, 7:6, 7:5... (link to section)
Can link Yevgeny Kafelnikov: ... 6:4, 6:7, 6:7, 6:3, 6:2 2000 Australian Open Yevgeny Kafelnikov 3:6, 6:3, 6:2, 6:4... (link to section)
Can link Rainer Schuettler: ...ment 6:4, 6:2, 6:2 2003 Australian Open Rainer Schuettler 6:2, 6:2, 6:1... (link to section)

Additionally, there are some other articles which may be able to linked to this one (also known as "backlinks"):

In Justine Henin-Hardenne, can backlink Andre Agassi: ...tness guru for other world-class players like Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi, Jim Courier and Jennifer Capriati....
In Tennis Masters Cup, can backlink Andre Agassi: ...arlos Moya. Blue Group: Juan Carlos Ferrero, Roger Federer, Andre Agassi, David Nalbandian. Round Robin: D Nalbandian (ARG) d JC Fer...

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:27, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"Agassi, whose father is half Armenian and half Assyrian and the rest Iranian, "

That makes no sense. Can someone change it to something that does? --Pyroclastic 15:18, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, "Agassi, whose father is half Armenian and half Assyrian and the rest Iranian, " does not make any sense. The correct phrase is, "whose father is Armenian and Assyrian Iranian" Please make the correction. DVKD

[edit] Wimbledon in 1992 against Ivanišević

I remember watching the match. Agassi took the first set, Ivanisevic the second, Agassi the third and so on. I don't remember the actual scores except Goran winning the fourth 6-1. --Evlekis 00:26, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

my point being that the scores are presented incorrectly on the article. --Evlekis 00:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Could we find a picture of mullety young Agassi, as here or here, to put into the article? john k 02:07, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree. It is hard to completely understand his early popularity without seeing his huge hair. And to appreciate how he transformed from a rebel, escaped simply feeding off his popular image, and matured into a multiple grand slam winner and father of two. 66.171.76.237 07:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Not sure if we need a mullet shot or not (perhaps in the 86-93 section), but I think the current feature picture is completely unsatisfying. He looks old, pained and just trying to make the finish line. I think without question the main picture should be of Agassi holding the French Open trophy in 1999. This was his finest hour, a historic moment (not even Federer has won all 4 yet), and the first thought that comes into most people's minds when they think of Agassi. Not sure how to do it myself, but this is the picture I would propose: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/news/1999/06/07/agassi_ranking/lg_agassi_ap_01.html

Of course securing the rights to a picture like that may be damn near impossible. Anybody got any '99 French Open photos lying around?

Yashin79 07:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Iranian Armenian Assyrian Answer

(special note to members chaldean and mcfly to read this) I think this part between the pound signs needs to be removes as politically incorrect, not plausible and stupid. We are not discussing those issues in Andre;s article. We are arguing if he is Armenian or Assyrian from his father's side as his ethnicity.

You both have succeeded in confusing yourselves over the terms Iranian, Armenian, and Assyrian. Although you both are correct you both are banging your heads over each other’s responses because each of you does not recognize that you both are correct (and in some ways incorrect). It seems your words are correct yet your understandings, faulty.

One can legally be Iranian and not Iranian. Member chaldean really is confusing him or herself by linking Race & Nationality. The statement in the article says “Iranian of Armenian/Assyrian ethnicity”. If you notice member chaldean, the statement ethnicity is in regards to the words Armenian/Assyrian, and not to Iranian. Iran is an official country in the 21 century, recognized worldwide as a “Nation” with citizens or that “Nation” of many ethnicities. Iranian yes can be looked at as a “Race” but when one uses the words “Iranian” it can also mean “Nationality”. So you both are correct. Agassi’s father is an Iranian by Nationality, but not Iranian by Ethnicity.

Is that clear? I hope it won’t be necessary to re-write this here?!

Further information: Persia is not a recognized modern “Nation”, so, no one said Agassi’s father is Persian, so you see Iranian is used merely to denote where he was born & his national citizenship.

Another point, ethnically Iran is related to the word Aryan. Armenians are widely concidered to be “Aryans”. If for a moment we set aside “nationality” and only talk about “Iran” as a race…we will come to the conclusian that Armenians & Iranians are actually closely related…as Aryans, unlike Assyrians. Assyrians are not Aryans, they are Semitic.

Another point…much of the debate is about Agassi’s father, which is only 50% of who Andre is. Is his mothers ethnicity Irish, German, Native American?

You see while many are arguing about Agassi’s fathers background, we neglect to speak about his mothers background, which most probably is very much a part of who Andre is. As a matter of fact, western media seems high strung about asking him about his father’s side, because of 3 reasons, it left his name upon Andre, he was the driving force behind Andre, and because his father was a non-European. Andre can’t change his dna make up but his father is 50% and his mother is 50% of his DNA.

If Andre ever gets a chance to read this, I just wanna say how happy we are for you in your successful career and we will miss you lots when it comes time to hang up your racket professionally. We are following you during Wimbledon and you are looking fabulous. Good luck against Nadal this week.

Thank you. By BB

[edit] Need for a head to head?

Many other tennis articles have been purging the "List of Players defeated by so-and-so." Though the "Head-to-Head" section is somewhat different, it seems somewhat excessive and a bit pointless. Could we get some clearance on whether something like this should really be in the article?--Flute138 19:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] perf. timel.

1. Timelines ought to have a standard outlook for all players pages. 2. A differentiated colour code for F, SF, QF might very well be an improvement (purple for F looks really great). 3. - is better than DNP in my opinion. 4. The old background colour was good. It has to be easily browsable and easy to oversee. And it should look NICE! (as the previous version did) 5. I don't see the need to add colour for NH/DNP/-. (for outlook see 4.) 6. I don't really like [Career Championships / Played] by now, but lets debate. 7. Discuss, if u think such huge change is improvement! Scineram 13:19, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I for one oppose the changes. The performance timeline with the original three colors was understandable and easy to read, like a chart supposed to be. But the new color scheme (how many different colors do we need, and certainly not dark grey) makes it look like a mess in my view. Replacing the - or dash with a DNP doesn't help make the table look more readable either, and there's no need to replace the dash if you only want to differentiate between the years the tournament was cancelled and the years the player could not attend. 80.227.146.51 13:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I too oppose the changes made by tennisplayer...IMO the way it looks now, with the light grey for the table, yellow for QF, SF, F, and green for W is readable enough. The purple, however looks horrendous and out of place. The dash should be made the standard for all tennis player boxes, rather than DNP--reduces the clutter. BTW, I'm assuming that the new look being discussed is the look that can be seen on Steffi Graf's article, with the dark grey, reds, and oranges. (minor edit for grammar)--Flute138 14:10, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

That is correct. Here's Tennis expert's edit on Agassi's timeline [3]. The previous table looked more organized in my view which is what a timeline ought to be. 80.227.146.51 15:16, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Finally, an actual discussion on this matter. I object to most of these changes too. The commonly used timeline was without clutter and well-organized, yet the "improvised" tables resemble a mosaic rather than an cohesive timetable to me. Igorrr 18:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

As Scineram pointed out, we need to get more people to agree on standardizing the current (tri color [light gray, yellow, green]) style of performance timeline, because, frankly, I doubt many people want to see the hodge-podge mess of a timeline that has come up recently. I'm also going to revise the Steffi Graf timeline so that it agrees with the current standard. --Flute138 20:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Four people do not a consensus make. If "consensus" is defined to mean how things are currently done, you may be surprised to learn that almost all the performance timelines are now in the format to which you four object. If you revert the timelines without us first negotiating a new consensus, I'll just revert them back. I have compromised already with the Agassi timeline. (Compare what I originally did to my last effort.) And I'm willing to discuss this further, but I strenuously object to the old ambiguous, ugly, user unfriendly way of doing the timelines. What have you guys done? Nothing but whine and revert. The ball is in your court. Have a look at my talkpage where the timeline format has already been discussed. Tennis expert 01:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Tennis Expert, please understand that all five of us are all like-minded tennis lovers. As I have proposed on your talk page, perhaps we can agree on a change in colorway, because, honestly, the colors that you have picked look hideous. Sure, the information is easy to read, but that doesn't change the aesthetic displeasure experienced by people who read the article. I would love to help you by changing the many performance timelines on the other tennis player pages if you would only agree to a few changes in the colorway. Why waste all of our efforts in reverting each other's work when we could be building on the tennis player areas of wikipedia? As said on your talk page, here's hoping for a compromise that all can agree on. --Flute138 02:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC) P.S: The WTA Tour website, and all 4 Grand Slam websites utilize dashes in player profiles to indicate when a player did not playa tournament. While you may think this ambiguous, this is a rather trivial change and it truly does reduce the clutter of the timeline.

Have a look at my latest effort. Also, I cannot figure out why a "*" appears correctly in the table but is a blue square in the note underneath the table. Tennis expert 16:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure how to do this, otherwise I would have done it myself, but what is the method for splitting the timeline into two parts (as it was before the update to the new timeline). I think that would reduce the out-of-place, "large" look that the current timeline has.--Flute138 20:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I am totally opposed to splitting the timeline into two parts. The multipart timelines look much worse. Tennis expert 20:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Agassi's last tournament

Yes, the 2006 US Open is Agassi's last tournament, and yes, his first two matches were both close, good ones, that doesn't make them "instant classics". People are perhaps understandably excited about them, but after all, they were first- and second-round matches against players who have not hit the big time. (Well, Baghdatis, to a degree, but he hasn't won a major yet). The tone of these descriptions should be moderated, and they arguably should not be in the "famous games" list, certainly not before enough time has elapsed to be able to call them famous. (It's almost laughable to see the quotes from John Macenroe (as a TV announcer, for Pete's sake!--he's using hyperbole) calling each game that Agassi plays "the best game ever", or something like.)--9/01/06

What really determines whether a match is or is not an instant classic? I think a classic is defined by the amount of effort put in by both parties, and the heart that goes into a match. IMO, the Pavel match, while an exciting first round match, was not a classic match. Pavel ran out of gas in the end, and one got the feeling that he really lost heart towards the end of the match, when he lost his 4-0 lead in the third set. The Baghdatis match, conversely, was a true fight. Both Marcos and Andre were really playing from the heart and giving everything they had to try and win the match. As one watched both players slug balls back and forth, one could really get the feeling that both players wanted the win--Agassi to keep his final US Open run alive, and Baghdatis to continue his outstanding year. The match displayed fantastic ball striking from both players, especially in the final three sets (save the part where Marcos cramped up, but, even then, he managed to thwack winners from all sides of the court--yet another testament to the effort he put in), and was easily one of the most exciting matches that Andre has ever participated in. All in all, it was another "classic" example of Agassi digging deep to prove the nay-sayers wrong, to show everyone that even at his (comparatively) old age, with an ailing back, he can still slug with and beat Top 10 players, despite the ten year age gap between him and them.--Flute138 14:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

One of my criteria for calling a match a "classic" is a high standard of play. Although the Agassi-Baghdatis match undoubtedly was exciting, the match is not a "classic" because it featured more unforced errors than winners by both men (86 to 83 for Baghdatis -and- 47 to 34 for Agassi). Tennis expert 16:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Its hardly fair to label a match a classic solely upon the number of unforced errors committed by players. Sure, many of the classic matches (I'm thinking Sampras-Agassi 4th [?] round encounter, with the four tiebreaks) were extremely clean, but I think the match deserves merit for the sheer heart exhibited by both participants. I really don't think it does the match justice to write it off as simply an "exciting" match, just based on the fact that both players had negative differentials. One has to consider the circumstance of the match and the mindsets of the players when determining the significance of a match. Consider the US Open 2005 Blake v. Agassi quarterfinal--Agassi drops the first two sets of a match, comitting a rather large amount of errors, letting Blake blow him away, but then makes the subtle changes needed to claw his way back in to the the match, finally fighting off a break and taking the match in a nailbiting tiebreak. Was it the high standard of play that led the match to its "instant classic" status, or was it the fight and heart shown by Agassi to come back from a two-set deficit to win the match? I stand by the latter--while Blake was, admittedly, playing quite well, Agassi did not really seem "fantastic" in the match--he made quite a few unforced errors, and really only won the match due to a few great returns--something is really expected from Agassi, due to his strong return game. Also, I'd just like to point out that a -3 and -13 differential, for Marcos and Andre, respectively, is not exactly terrible play. When the differential starts to go into the -20's-- á la Serena Williams or Marat Safin, then I think its fair to say it was an ugly match. --Flute138 22:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

When applying the winners versus errors criterion, I have a different standard for women versus men. Women tend to make a lot more errors, proportionately speaking, than men. You hardly ever see a women's match where winners for both players exceed their errors. That's not true for men. I don't think the Agassi-Pavel match was a classic, either. But it was a much higher quality match. By the way, I played a 10-8 in the fifth set match a few years ago. But I'd hardly call it a "classic" just because it was close, both of us were suffering, and was played against my main rival. Tennis expert 22:26, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

As I said earlier, it depends on the circumstance. Obviously you can't compare a match that you (presumably a recreational player) played with a match played by Andre Agassi, let alone any pro player (of course I have no idea who you are--you could be an ATP professional for all I know)...I see the Agassi-Baghdatis match as a classic because of the effort put out by both players, and also because of the US Open environment--the way the crowd reacted to the match, and the way things played out under the Arthur Ashe lights. I'm sure if the match was played during the day, or during the Australian Open, the match would not have been billed as a "classic." But it's the fact that Agassi was playing what could have been his last match, under the lights, against a top quality player, with a rowdy (and, at times, classless) sellout crowd pushing him to fight and win a long, tough, fifth set, that really created the kind of US Open atmosphere that can only be described as "classic". But hey, we're all entitled to our own opinions--what can't be disputed is that the media has billed this match an "instant classic" and that the match does deserve to belong in the Famous Matches section, because, last time I checked, famous matches were matches that a player could be associated with and remembered by, and I for one am certain that the 36-year old Andre Agassi's thrilling five-set upset over the talented 21-year old Marcos Baghdatis in the second round of his final US Open is going to be remembered for quite some time (and, even if some really don't want to remember it, I'm sure the networks (USA, for myself) will shove it in their faces for a long time, á la Jimmy Connors v. Aaron Krickstein). --Flute138 00:39, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

"the match does deserve to belong in the Famous Matches section, because, last time I checked, famous matches were matches that a player could be associated with and remembered by, and I for one am certain that the 36-year old Andre Agassi's thrilling five-set upset over the talented 21-year old Marcos Baghdatis in the second round of his final US Open is going to be remembered for quite some time"

I strongly disagree with that. Whether it will become famous or not remains to be seen. If he wins a couple more, I think it very likely won't be. But in any case, regardless of your opinion, you shouldn't label it "famous" based on your personal prognostication.--JH (the original poster. I'm not tennisexpert.)

Well its not really my personal opinion, but that of the media...the media, at least where I am, has been hyping up the match quite a bit, and have insisted on showing it over and over again. According to dictionary.com, the word "famous" means, " having a widespread reputation, usually of a favorable nature..." Now, the match most certainly does have a widespread reputation, and the media has definetely touted it as "favorable in nature", so I really don't see how you see it as my opinion that it was a "famous" match--though I said that it was an opinion I agreed with, I clearly stated that it was the media that was responsible for the "classic" status of this match. I'm not predicting anything--I'm simply saying that the match belongs in the famous matches section because, to put it bluntly, it's "famous." --Flute138 12:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Andre Andre Andre!!! We are all rooting for you. good luck and god speed.

nuff said.

Certainly, it's one of Agassi's most famous matches, and will probably continue to be noted for a long time, due to it being his last win. I don't really have a problem with calling it a "classic". But in terms of great matches from a quality perspective or from a Grand Slam implication perspective, it's not even on the radar. Just off the top of my head, I'd put both Rafter Wimbledon semifinal losses, the '95 and '01 Sampras US Open losses, the '95 and '00 Sampras Australian Open wins, and the '99 French and '92 Wimbledon wins above it. That's just the first ones that come to mind as being both dramatic and great tennis. Oh yeah, and the 2002 US Open semis win over Hewitt. And the comeback 2000 US Open win over Todd Martin. I could keep going. Like I said, the Baghdadis match is not on the radar.Atarr 15:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

SniperSarge 19:07, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

For an encyclopedic article, it is utterly absurd that his last 2006 US Open matches are getting detailed reviews. This is not a newspaper. In Agassi's big pictures these matches are nowhere near being classics! So get rid of all the journalism please (or should I be bold and just do it myself?).--130.225.116.203 09:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Be bold and do it. The 2006 and 2005 sections are way too long, and should be cut down to one or two paragraphs apiece.--62.190.10.139 10:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I really don't think the 2005, 2006 sections are too long at all--they provide a fantastic, in depth look at the tennis legend's final two years. I do think, however, that there is a bit too much "sap" around his last few matches--IMO the Baghdatis match should get its in depth commentary moved to the Famous Matches section (where it belongs), and the commentary on the Pavel, Becker matches should be cut down a bit. --Flute138 13:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The 2005 section has 7 paragraphs, the 2006 paragraph has 19 paragraphs. This is way too much, and a lot of it reads like a novel, not an encyclopedia article. I took a quick flick through the other tennis bios to check retirement parargraphs, and they are usually one paragraph. I appreciate that Agassi has retired, but let's use some sense here. Not many tennis players have their own article in an encyclopedia!! --D'Olivier 14:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

These sections are just over the top. They are really absurd, and show a lack of perspective. Sure we are all excited about him these days, but in the longer run, who will seriously think highly about an article that uses 3 lines on his 1992 Wimbledon win (including one line about the final), and then in-depth and long journalistic accounts of unimportant matches in 2006 (none of them, e.g., are nearly as important as his Wimbledon 1992 final)? I know these excessive 2006 writings are made out of love for the man, but we must remember that this is not a fan site or a blog. It is an encyclopedia. So I am all in favor of some heavy editing that can restore the balance in the article.--HJ 06:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, it should be edited down or moved into a side article. The content itself is not really inappropriate, it's just far too much detail for a main page. Also, see my comments below about reorganizing the section altogether.Atarr 04:17, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

If there are no objections, I'll start in on a reorganization along those lines shortly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Atarr (talk • contribs).

I am all in favor.--HJ 20:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, done. Feel free to edit more. I dumped all the old stuff into the sub-article without any editing, so a lot of the fawning stuff is still in there.Atarr 00:56, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Nice! The article is trimmed, without losing much of its "informativity." Do we really even need a separate article for Agassi's final two years? I mean, I don't think McEnroe, Sampras, or even Jimmy Connors have something like that...It just kind of seems a little odd to have a separate article dedicated solely to the last two years of his career....--Flute138 01:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I certainly wouldn't have written it. But I wasn't sure whether it made sense to just delete all that stuff. There is some detail there that, while inappropriate for a main article, is not exactly useless. I don't really care whether we keep it or not.Atarr 04:38, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featuring an Article

So, since Agassi has retired, is there any way to maybe get a mini tribute to him up on the main page for just tomorrow, like a featured article kind of thing, or something in the current events box? I know it's kind of sappy, but the guy was such an icon, even for those who did not follow tennis--he really transcended the boundaries of the sport. Please, no need to flame--it's just an idea. So anyone know if this is possible, and how to go about with this kind of thing (if it can be done; if it can't be done/shouldn't be done, that's cool--just seeing if there's a way to let people know that Agassi has finally called it quits, and give them some insight into his life) --Flute138 00:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Neat, somethings up there on Agassi! --Flute138 01:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should this now say "former" professional tennis player?

Anyone? - Glen 07:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes it should, and I believe it does. I removed the current event template from the page because he retired and nothing is expected to change anytime soon. Wikipedia's False Prophet holla at me Improve Me 20:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Odd. A few moments ago (21:30 CST, 09/04/06) while I was reading Andre's article I saw a "Will is really Gay" at the end of the fist paragraph at the top.

Why would someone want to do that to a Tennis Legend of all things?

Just curious.

ChangeOfFate 02:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)ChangeOfFate

To see if people notice. --Chris (talk) 02:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

130.17.62.210 18:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism, unfortunately happens all over Wikipedia. Some people apparently find it amusing to annoy serious people and their hard work. The problem is that it takes up quite some time to deal with. See WP:Vandalism for more details.--HJ 19:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] End of an Era

This 2006 section is as long as all the other eras combined. Is this necessary? Is it too much info? Just wondering --Wikidan81 15:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

No. Yes. So am I. My guess is that when the hype is over, the article can be edited to suitable proportions. Many editors are way too short-sighted, especially concerning sporting events. See my previous comments on this talk page. --HJ 15:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Both the 2005 and 2006 sections are way too long. Rather than completely excise that material, though, perhaps it should be broken out into small sub-articles.Atarr 16:00, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Now that he's retired, how about changing the photo to one from one of his major championships? Is there an appropriate magazine cover from around those times (or when he was #1)? He looks pained and flat-footed in the current photo. DavidRF 18:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganize Tennis career section?

Currently we have:

1986-1997: Image is everything

1998-2004: From rebel to legend

2005: A U.S. Open run for the ages

2006: The end of an era

I would suggest we go to:

1986-1994: Image is everything

1994-1998: Rivalry and injury

1999-2005: Living legend

2006: The end of an era

The names of those two middle eras could use some work, but the divide makes sense. I would argue that, starting with the US Open win in 1994, and continuing with the casting off of the long-haired look in 1995, Agassi wasn't really the "Image is everything" guy anymore. He wasn't yet the eloquent statesman he evolved into later in his career, but he was dedicated to his craft, less of a fashion misfit, and far less prone to tanking games or saying outrageous things. 1994-1996 was the period when the Sampras/Agassi rivalry basically defined men's tennis, and after 1997-1998 Agassi's career was more or less left for dead by the overwhelming majority of tennis analysts. Since this period is neither "Image is everything" nor "living legend", I think it should be its own section.

And since 2005 was not really dramatically different than 2004 or 2003, it belongs in the "living legend" section as well.Atarr 16:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Why is it necessary to have a "living legend" section? This is supposed to be a fact-based encyclopedia, not a glamorizing biography. Tennis expert 17:58, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. I really don't care what this section is called. The point of my post was that the current four sections don't appropriately divide his career. I'm more interested in reorganizing things into these four time periods, then I am in what the names of these four time periods are. If you have a better suggestion for a title that summarizes this later period of his career (dedication to fitness, more success in Grand Slams, increased thoughtfulness and broader popularity) then I'm all ears.Atarr 18:45, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Would "elder statesman" work for you?

[edit] Please note that "Iranian" is not needed for the Country box

Andre Agassi lives in the united states his parents were born in iran and there parents are full armenian meaning there iranian-armenian although i dont see the signific need to put down Iran since he lives in the USA.

[edit] Proposal to replace {{flagicon|USA...}} calls

Notice: There is currently a proposal to change calls {{flagicon|USA..}} to {{USA|..}} at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Flag_Template#Changing_USA_flag_calls. Please consider posting there to keep the discussion in one place. (SEWilco 04:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Discussion at MoS on flag icons

Please contribute to the discussion on flag icons at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Flag icons - manual of style entry?. (SEWilco 14:46, 15 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Nomiated

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