Talk:Anarcho-punk

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Does anyone know of any good anarchist metal bands? I really like punk, but (some) metal sounds really cool, but most of the lyrics suck. Anyone have ideas. I just got Napalm death's new cd and that's pretty good. Any ideas?

DRI all the way... "Dealing With IT" should serve your needs of political metal or how bout SOAD hahahaha j/k

Unencyclopedic material removed to be integrated:

(add 14-3-03) anarcho-punk was & is not purely about the music it was/is about action and discourse. over the past 20 years many people were and are being tuned into positive progressive politics through this music. no one is nieve enough to believe that everyone who likes the sound will be, or that those who are will be into our noise. that said it has been an entry point of many to politics and getting people to think for themselves and about others and the society/ies we live in. ok some of us like the puppet bands even still it's not that we 'sold out' it's just we like their noise with out seeing their politics as particularly positive. shame so many of our fellow clowns see more importance in how they look than how they act, or listen without hearing / hear without listening. anyway no one is perfect, there is no god and i suppose we can all offer lessons as we learn.

I edited the lifestylism link to "lifestyle anarchism" where there's actually an article. I guess you got to write an article on 'lifestylism' if you don't like the edit, or don't think the article is related enough.

I think it's suspicious to say "this is a music genre" and then avoid mention of any representative artists. Who are the anarcho-punks? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by user:65.11.199.84 (talk • contribs) .

The last paragraph of the intro gives three notable examples, and there is an entire list of musicians of anarcho-punk linked to at the end of the article. The Ungovernable Force 21:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Musical definition

While Anarcho-punk is a highly ideological denomination of punk, it is also a musical one(or at least more so than, say, Scum punk or straight edge). I think a section should be added describing Anarcho-punk musically.

[edit] I don't think 1-st were Sex Pistols

It's said that 1-st anarcho punx were The Sex Pistols, but I think that were Iggy Pop! Wasn't it? I mean he was not so political, but well, @ least a little!

[edit] New additions

First off, User:84.65.93.68, you have made some good edits here, although they do need to be cleaned up a bit. I'm sort of worried though because we have a bit of a decision here. Is this article about all punk bands that are anarchist, or are we focusing on the classic British 80's anarcho-punk musical style (ie, Crass, Flux, Subhumans, Conflict) and others with a similar sound (like the American band A//Political)? Specifically, should we be including crust bands like Nausea and hardcore ones like MDC and Reagan Youth? They are all good bands and are anarchists, and I know they are sometimes called anarcho-punk, but others would rather label them as crust or hardcore and leave the anarcho label only for the bands with a particular sound. I'm not really sure what we should do. Suggestions? Also, you put a link to peace punk, which redirects to this page. What exactly differentiates peace punk from anarcho punk, if anything? I've wondered that for a while now. These are really subjective issues and so I don't expect any clear or easy answers to come from them. Also, one minor thing is the characterization of crust as slow. Some of it is, but some of it is very thrashy and fast as well, similar to D-beat. The real difference between crust and D-beat IMO is the beat (D-beat has a d-beat, duh), the bass-heavy sound of crust, and the atmospheric darkness of crust music, which often employs both slow chuggy parts, and super fast thrashy stuff with fast rhythms and all that jazz. That's less of an issue for me at this point though. I'm going to just do some minor clean up on the new addition until some people weigh in. Ungovernable ForceGot something to say? 03:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, who are Polemic Attack? I've never even heard of them? Are there any more notable examples anarcha-feminist bands (perhaps Poison Girls)? And we should probably source a lot of the new stuff about anarchism w/o adjectives (and probably some other stuff), because although I agree with you, it isn't something that is as obvious as other things and probably needs a source. There should also be a mention of Crimethinc and post-leftism. Ungovernable ForceGot something to say? 03:51, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

One more thing. We should add folk punk to the common subgenres that anarchists are involved in if we go with the broad approach. I'm also starting to think that the best route would probably be to mention that it could refer to the specific sound I was talking about, but that it is often applied to all anarchist punks as well. Ungovernable ForceGot something to say? 02:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that crust doesn't have to slow (listen to Aus Rotten, for example), although maybe that's what the term meant originally and the meaning has changed over time. As for the scope of this article, the article needs to comprehensively describe how people use the term "Anarcho-Punk," so what you're describing is sort of the only solution. P4k 02:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Comparing versions, i like the additions, and the following cleanup that was done. aside from some VERY minor (and maybe petty?) clarifications about who's crust and who's anarcho-punk, i think the current version looks good. Murderbike 03:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

In my experience, anarcho-punk can refer to either the specific sound, or to DIY, grassrots anarchist punk bands. I've often heard crust/folk/whatever bands described as anarcho-punk, but rarely bands like Dead Kennedys or Propaghandi, who were/are anarchists, but are part of a completely different scene/subculture apart from having a different sound.
Anyway, I like the focus of the article being on the broader definition, but the intro paragraph should mention that it also can refer to the specific sound.
As for peace punk, I've only ever heard that used in reference to late 70s/early 80s anarcho-punk bands, not crust or similar, so maybe it refers to the specific sound? ~Switch t 04:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
That's what I was thinking regarding peace punk, but I wasn't sure. Ungovernable ForceGot something to say? 05:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I'll keep my eyes out for refernces to Penny Rimbaud's comments about 'disliking'the term anarcho-punk. Its something he's said to me in person before, but i'm not sure if its actually in print anywhere. I must admit I added it to this article long before the more rigorous demands for citable material and references were (quite rightly) added to the wikipedia rule book. Other than generally needing more references and citations I think the article reads pretty OK at the moment. It would be nice if the anon contributor could create themselves a user identity though to ease communication quercus robur 12:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Have added a reference to The Day the Country Died by Ian Glasper http://www.amazon.co.uk/Day-Country-Died-History-Anarcho/dp/1901447707 which is probably the source book for this article, apart from various ancient record sleeeves, fanzine interviews and so on. Well worth getting a copy if this is your area of interest! quercus robur 12:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I'm the bloke who made all those recent changes to the page and I'm glad everybody is happy with it. I've got a few points to make: 1) My re-write was motivated by my feelings that anarcho-punk should be used to describe punk bands with "serious" anarchist beliefs (i.e. not G.G. Allin, The Exploited, The Sex Pistols etc). If someone wants, they can make a paragraph about the early '80s anarcho sound (i'd find this very hard as in my opinion Crass and Conflict sound about as different as Doom and Discharge). Also there seems to be a lot of cross over between these various sub-genres. For example, Aus-Rotten (Crust or Anarcho?), Beesthoven (D-beat or Crust?) and Reagan Youth (Anarcho or Hardcore?) 2) I agree that the Dead Kennedys should be added to this page as Jello Biafra is an anarchist (although I do recall him saying that the world is not ready for anarchy YET) and his record label (alternative tentacle) has been responsible for signing many major anarchist bands (Nausea, Amebix, D.O.A.). 3) I'm really happy someone added the Ian Glasper book as this is the source of much of my information (the Polemic Attack stuff for example). I feel that this article should focus on what glasper terms "anarchy and peace" punks. That does not mean pacifists, but rather the largly consistant, anarchy without adjectives stuff that takes anarchy as a serious alternative to the way things are. We should write a paragraph explaining that this article is not aboout what Glasper calls "anarchy and chaos" punks such as G.G. Allin, The Exploited, The Sex Pistols, Chaos Uk etc. Much thanks to everyone who has gotten involved. Learn, Teach Anok and peace!

Yeah, I was pretty disapointed that All Music Guide's article on anarcho-punk lists the Exploited as a huge band in the genre...WTF?! I'm going to need to find that book. And I agree that a paragraph on the early anarcho music's sound would be difficult and Crass vs Conflict was exactly the example I was thinking of. Someone else might want to try. I personally see two (or maybe three) major sounds in the early anarcho-scene: the experimental, and sometimes artsy and free formish stuff like Crass, Flux, Anthrax and such (and the American A//Political) and the more harsh stuff like Conflict, Icons of Filth, Oi Polloi etc, which were basically proto-crust in some respects. Then you've got straight up punk like Subhumans. That's how I see it at least. Ungovernable ForceGot something to say? 06:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
BTW, I just created a page for Thatcher On Acid. I can't find any info on them really, so it's pretty sparse. If anyone knows more please contribute. Ungovernable ForceGot something to say? 08:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anarcho-punk federation

This group seems pretty important and deserves a mention on this page. Does anyone have any info? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by D-Raven (talk • contribs) 20:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

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