User talk:Amicable

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[edit] Possible Explanation

Hi Amicable, thanks for noticing -- I honestly didn't think I was doing anything wrong. I think there might be a lag in the email-verification process when I created a Wiki account. So when I made some modifications to one of the pages SWATjester was watching, I was probably an anon user at the time. I'm not new to the web, just new to the concept of the Wiki. Will educate myself on this interesting initiative with all the articles sent to me from various admins, but please feel free to let me know some of the things you'd think that would help me assimilate. Cheers, JJJ (JJJ 06:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC))

• This is kind of freaking me out right now, but at the same time, interesting to read. I certainly hope that this is not the experience that all new Wikipedians have to go through when they join :D Let's call it a draw or else we'll be here all day/night. I can see both sides, and we've all made our points. Let's acknowledge the other person's POV and move along. I have to do the dishes now and watch some TV. Nice meeting you both! (JJJ 06:56, 14 April 2006 (UTC))

HI JJJ, I have to admit I also am kind of freaked out by Swatjester's response. All I was asking is to not bite the newcomers. This account is a sock-puppet of mine because I'd rather use my ordinary account for editing as these kinds of disputes are quite common on Wikipedia and the person who is right doesn't always win which I think is a very bad thing for Wikipedia's reputation and I hope to change that with this sock-puppet. Cheers! ^_^ --Amicable 07:11, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I've removed your incorrect warning on my talk page per the direction of two other admins. I have not bit any newbies, as such your warning does not apply. Furthermore, the use of sockpuppets to apply warnings may be construed as a violation of wikipedia sockpuppet policy. I'll be removing your warning once again. Do not reinstate it, or I'll bring you up on AN/I. ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire!

Are you saying you did not bite the newcomer? --Amicable 06:16, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Below is what I posted to your talk page:

[edit] Notice

Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers Hi Swatjester, please read Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers if you have not already done so. "If you really feel that you must say anything at all to a newcomer about a mistake, do it in a spirit of being helpful. Begin by introducing yourself with a greeting on their talk page to let them know that they are welcome here, and present your corrections calmly and as the contributor's peer, perhaps also pointing out things they've done that you *like*. If you can't do that, then it is better to say nothing." I sent you this notice because I noticed your warned new user User:Jjjchang without him even having been welcomed at all. --Amicable 06:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

You ignored my message and deleted it, so I reverted it and added this:

Swat Jester, please welcome new users while you revert/change what you think is vandalism. If they continue to cause problems then warn them. But only AFTER you have welcomed them. Please do not ignore my message. The evidence is in the history[1] and Jjjchang's talk page. --Amicable 06:13, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Read WP:BITE. Now read WP:VANDAL. Nothing says that an editor need to be given a welcome template before his edits are reverted. That is NOT a violation of WP:BITE. Further continued false warnings on my page will be construed as vandalism, and I will take appropriate action. ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 06:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC) Further, if you'll notice, Jjjchang asked me the reasoning on my talk page, and I explained it to him. There was no biting involved whatsoever. ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 06:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I am only presenting a guideline to you and asking that you please consider it. I see no reason you should be so strongly opposed to it. --Amicable 06:30, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm opposed to it due to the way you presented it. There is a significant amount of vandalism on wikipedia. Most of it does not warrant a welcome message: In other cases, the welcome message is given through the standard Test warning templates. However, in no way should welcoming be a prerequisite to reverting vandalism. You are suggesting that I be punished for reverting vandalism, and that's a no go. You are not presenting a "guideline", you're presenting your opinion, and trying to pass it off as a wikipedia guideline. THAT is why I'm opposed. I once again entreat you, read WP:BITE and show me the section that says I must welcome a user before warning them. ANY user is allowed to issue the standard warning templates: I'm only doing my job as a wikipedian editor, fighting vandalism to ensure this encyclopedia stays intact.⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 06:40, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

No, I did not say welcoming was a prerequisite to reverting vandalism. Reread the message that you so quickly deleted. I said "please welcome new users while you revert/change what you think is vandalism". Or you could just revert their changes and let someone else welcome them. I don't see what is so hard about welcoming new users first and then warning them. --Amicable 06:58, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, I'm opposed to your reversion of my talk page. Your post was not an official warning, nor is it a policy. Therefore, I'm within my rights to delete it. ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 06:41, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with you deleting messages from your talk page. But did you even read my message? It seems you haven't because you think I am saying that Welcoming is a prerequisite to reverting vandalism. No, I said that nowhere and nowhere do I imply it. Revert vandalism all you want. What I am saying is WELCOME NEW USERS BEFORE YOU PLACE A WARNING ON THEIR TALK PAGE. What is so difficult about doing that especially when there are templates to make it easier? --Amicable 06:58, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

And what I'M saying, is that if I choose not to do so, that's my decision, but it's not a WP:BITE violation as you implied. ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 07:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

If you choose not to Welcome user's first before warning them then that is up to you. Perhaps its only my opinion, but I believe it is contrary to the spirit of WP:BITE when anyone warns a newly registered user who has never even been welcomed on his talk page. "Welcoming" someone with warnings could possibly be argued as uncivil and often causes the "greeted" to dislike the ones "welcoming" them. My goal is to reduce the uncivility in Wikipedia, that's all. And I believe that if you would consider my suggestion, we would have a lot less uncivility and vandalism in the long run. Keep up the good work, I think you're doing a great job at everything else you do at Wikipedia. --Amicable 07:37, 14 April 2006 (UTC)