Talk:Amhrán na bhFiann

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[edit] Prologue

"...where either the entire song (not just chorus that is the actual anthem) is played - this occurred at the Los Angeles Olympics, for example - or the right part is played but at the wrong speed..."

Which Olympics would these be? I'm guessing 1984 Summer Olympics, but this requires confirmation. -- Itai 07:07, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

Ireland did not win any gold medals in the 1984 Los Angeles Summer Games, so it is unlikely that the anthem was played. John Treacy did win a sliver in the Marathon, but an anthem would not have been played. That sentence needs editing. Eurokraut.

[edit] "Some have come from a land across the wave"

-- does this refer to US citizens, to British citizens or to whom? Can somebody clarify?

It refers to all who have Helped, almost certainly not Americans or British, who never helped, But Napolean's French and the Spanish, the Canadians, The Rovers and Wild Geese. --195.7.55.146 09:51, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It also refers to the Irish expatriates who returned from America, Britain, Scotland, and Australia in order to join in the fight for independence.

Since when has Scotland not been part of Britain? Britain = England, Scotland, and Wales.

Actually, as the song references the 1798 rebellion (as far as I'm aware)it would be the French and United Irishmen who were based abroad such as Wolfe Tone.

[edit] Link suggestions

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I would suggest that Fianna Fáil not be linked to in the text!!! zoney ♣ talk 18:32, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It would be interesting, though, to know the original (literary?) source of Fianna Fáil as an expression, since it appears not only in the anthem and as the name of the well-known political party but also (as FF) on the cap badges of members of the Irish Defence Forces. -- Picapica 10:19, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

As far as i'm aware the cap badge of the Irish army has 'Oglaigh na Eireann' on it - which is also what the IRA call themselves in Irish - Paddy

Note also, that for that very reason, one version of Amhrán na bhFiann starts off with Sinne laochra fáil ... I learnt this version in school (Dublin, 70s) at one point - Pete C ✍ 22:51, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
"Fál" is a literary name for Irish, used in a few expressions. So "Fianna Fáil" means "Soldiers of Ireland" (though they use the translation "Soldiers of Destiny"), "Inis Fáil" means the island of Ireland, et cetera. --Gabriel Beecham/Kwekubo 23:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Fal means destiny not soldiers. the plural of fal would then be Fail. The fianna were and ancient band of warriors in Ireland and it is also used as a word for warrior in Irish (gaelic). Hence Warriors of destiny or soldiers of destiny. Inish Fail does definately not mean island of Ireland either. Please learn a bit about the lingo before making pronouncments on it. While I'm at it can i just point out that laochra means heroes doesn't it? - Paddy

[edit] "English Translation"

The National Anthem was WRITTEN in English (at least according to every source I can find, and the copyright on it). If anything, its the IRISH translation we use. Article should be fixed, but I'm slightly too tired and emotional to do so... --Kiand 01:51, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] English Version

This section

Tonight we man the bhearna bhaoil (described in the footnote as Gaps of Danger)

Shoundn't we change it to this?

Tonight we man the Gaps of Danger --Arbiteroftruth 20:14, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Its not a translation. The Irish version it the translation. The original English used "Bearna Baoghal" as far as I can tell, it definately didn't use "Gaps of Danger" however. --Kiand 01:28, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Still, it looks really weird for an Irish word to pop up in the middle of an English text. Not that it matters too much, just a stylistic problem. --Arbiteroftruth 20:14, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, obviously the author thought it was artistic to have it there. Its definately there in the original English anyway. --Kiand 20:19, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] International Phonetic Alphabet

From the footnote;

Amhrán na bhFiann is pronounced "ow-rawn na veean"
Meaning "gap of danger" and pronounced "vair-na vwhale"

Can someone possibly translate these pronounciations into IPA? This would be seriously useful to many, I'm sure. Also, bhFiann is maybe more like vee-uhn, IMO - Ali-oops✍ 17:16, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

depends on the dialect of Irish used

[edit] Irelands Call (?)

Noone rewally wants to replace the anthem with Ireland's Call? There is a certain amount of controversy (not much - and in my opion its overstated by being mentioned at all in the article but as i like it I'm biased and shouldn't edit) but even still i've never heard anyone propose replacing it with Irelands Call - Perhaps someone heard 'with an anthem like Ireland's Call' and got confused! no-one wants to replace Amhrán na bhFiann with Irelands call, but to maintain happiness in the ranks of the rugby team, which has players from all sections of the community North and South of the boarder, we use both songs at home games. its not the official anthem, more the anthem of Irish rugby, which is the only time it's used on an international setting for the country.

It's also used for other sports where all of Ireland is represented, such as international competitions in Hockey and Cricket. --Ryano 12:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minor comments

  • If this is just the chorus, are there lyrics available for the full song? And should there be a "Chorus:" in the lyrics section
  • Re 1984 olympics, the song comment isn't in the Ireland at the 1984 olympics article, is there any online reference for it?
  • I think it would be nice to have it mentioned in the main article about the use of this for RTE shutdown, as well as a link at the end. (which brought back memories!) When did this stop? Was it when broadcasts went 24 hour MartinRe 23:53, 14 February 2006 (UTC)?

[edit] Added Complete Lyrics

I was disappointed to see that Wikipedia didn't already have the full lyrics up, so I took the Liberty of adding them (in Irish and English). I think it is very important to have the full Lyrics here as much of the article talks about these lyrics but they didn't appear here, (i.e. talking about the Anti-British-ness without having the relevant line "the Saxon Foe"), well it's there now. (Oh and the English version contains the "gap of danger" line translated, unlike the first version).
Also I'm pretty new to editing so I would suggest someone more experienced should clean up the format of my edit a bit, specifically I think it would be good to have the Irish and English lyrics side-by-beside (instead of on top of one another like now), but I don't know how to do that.
--Hibernian 10:10, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Translated? The English version is the original, and I don't think it had "gaps of danger" in English in it... --Kiand 10:15, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
I formatted all the lyrics (including the complete version) into tables, but I wonder if we could perhaps merge these lyrics so that we don't have so much redundancy. I want to keep the phonetic version, but I also want to have only the complete set and simply mention that only the chorus is sung normally. So it would help a lot if someone could give a phonetic version of all the lyrics.--Jitterro 04:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] German National Anthem

Quote: "The suggestion has been made that, as occurred in Germany after World War II, the government might change the words of the anthem while keeping the original melody."

The Germans did not in fact change the words of the anthem. "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit" was (and is) the third verse of "Deutschland Uber Alles". What the Germans did was to drop the first two verses of the anthem and retain the verse about unity and rights and freedom (compare God Save the Queen and the omission of "rebellious Scots to crush").
Besides which, the suggestion may have been made, but it has not been seriously entertained by anybody. The melody is synonymous with the lyrics, both for its adherents and its detractors.
Scolaire 19:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] YouTube links

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. ---J.S (t|c) 04:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Irish/English versions

Is there any chance of someone giving a direct translation of the Irish lyrics on this page? Because the one "as Gaeilge" is the one in use as the national anthem, and the lyrics don't directly translate. For example the first line, "Seo dhiabh a cháirde duan Óglaigh" certainly does not mean "We'll sing a song, a soldier's song". I don't have near the Irish necessary, but if there are any who do, it would certainly be interesting. Because given that the page is entitled "Amhrán na bhFiann" and the Irish national anthem is sung almost exclusively through Irish, it'd be fitting to translate as well as give the original. The translation to Irish was obviously a poetic one, but this is an encyclopedia. Karlusss 19:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Irish Political History series" template

The "Irish Political History Series" should be removed as it should not be in the article - unrelated/misleading. The article is about the national anthem of Ireland, not Republicanism. Objections? --sony-youth 23:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe, but the Anthem is defiantly a part of Irish Political History, and it certainly is related to Republicanism/Nationalism. --Hibernian 15:23, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, but the template is solely about Republicanism while the article is about the national anthem. Having the template there feels a little like POV pushing. (In fairness, if it was only A Soldier's Song being sung over and over again in the GPO, I think they would have surrendered a lot sooner!) I'm taking it down, also on God Save Ireland. --sony-youth 11:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Broken link

RealMedia file 3.9 MB audio-visual of Amhrán na bhFiann as used on RTÉ television in the 1980s/'90s —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.5.166.129 (talk) 17:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

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