Talk:American Old West
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of the United States WikiProject. This project provides a central approach to United States-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards. | |
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. | |
Contents |
[edit] WikiProject Wild West
A WikiProject has been proposed on List of proposed projects to both expand and improve coverage of articles relating to the "Wild West" period. MadMax 01:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Old talk
I am not happy with this language, "...before the coming of the railroads. After the railroads, emigration to the West became much easier; but before the railroads, rule by the gun was the norm,..." Most areas of the West were relatively peaceful with established authority before the coming of the railroad, not "rule of the gun". Conversely certain areas, for example, Arizona and Wyoming were relatively lawless after the coming of the railroad, see Johnson County War. Fred Bauder 12:40, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)
I'm inclined to agree, the language is a bit over-wrought and of dubious accuracy. Much of the "Old West" was really rather dull.
dino 17:55, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
"Considerable poetic license has been taken with a number of the actual events and characters such as Wyatt Earp and Billy the Kid as they have been protrayed in ways which reflect contemporary concerns more than the historical record."
Contemporary concern? Isn't it rather derived from the romanticism of that era?
"Nevertheless, the untamable mystique of the Wild West lives on... A fascination with a simpler world of salt of the Earth values, where men were men and women were damsels, fuels interest in Nashville and the Country Music scene, the rodeo circuits and the Western fashions of the 21st Century. Is it any surprise that Cowboy Action Shooting is one of the fastest growing sports today, combining marksmanship with the theatricality of an historical reenacting of the gunslinging Wild West days? The interest in the West seems eternal: maybe it is just because "a man's got to do what a man's got to do.""
This paragraph seems more like its been written for a magazine than for an enclylopedia.
I don't know who wrote it, but it does sound like a bad in-flight magazine. I edited it, and hopefully it is better.
dino 04:47, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I'm curious should the time range of the west be more around 1849 following the California Gold Rush ? With much of the west coast settled by 1860 it could even be argued following the period after the Lewis and Clark Expedition leading to the colonization of Oregon and California. I would suggest a timeline more along the lines of around 1850 to 1890. Maybe a rewording "from 1850 to its official close in 1890 (however the settling of the west continued into the early 1900s)." ? 205.188.116.132 19:40, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The concept of the frontier and of the old west are easily confabulated. I would date the old west from the Texas Revolution in 1836 and subsequent settlement of Texas. I think the days of the Mountain Men and of Bent's Fort and the Santa Fe Trail, which also predates 1849, fit easily into the period. Fred Bauder July 8, 2005 12:56 (UTC)
- I agree. I think the Santa Fe Trail and the Battle of the Battle of the Alamo would fit most people's idea of the Old West and the timeline given should include those events. Johntex 23:04, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
-
- I was curious what time period was quoted elsewhere, so I looked at Western (genre), which says: "Westerns, by definition, are set in the American west, almost always in the 19th century, from the antebellum period to the turn of the century..."Johntex 23:12, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
-
-
- Sorry for my late responce. As you can see I left the previous message quite awhile ago. Certainly the "Old West" could be traced back to the Louisianna Purchase. It seems the general timeline might be divided into diffrent "eras" in the phases of western settlement. 64.12.116.71 09:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
-
ex.
- Exploration (from the Louis and Clark Expedition and subsequent explorations)
- Early Immigration (the initial colonization of Oregon, California, Texas, etc.)
- Pre-Civil War (from the California Gold Rush to the end of the Civil War)
- Post-Civil War (the end of the civil war through reconstruction and covering much of the romantizized "Old West")
- Final Years (the frontiers decline and eventual closing in 1890)
- Present Day (covering years following the "official" closing of the frontier to the present day)
[edit] History vs Fiction
The title of the article is American Old West and the first sentence of the article says "The Western United States has played a significant role in history and fiction." However, the article as it stands is mostly about history. Even the 'actual events and characters' section mentions "history and folklore". Should we:
- (a) Strive for more like a 50/50 balance
- (b) Take out the mention of history and focus on mythology, symbolism, and folklore
- (c) Continue on with no major change in the slant of the article?
I would be in favor of (a) with the provision I think the article will eventually get too big and require some sort of splitting. If we go with (b), we might consider renaming the article. Johntex 23:00, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
- I want to say we should do A. But in my mind, we should have a mention of how the present idea of the west was formed because of movies and media sources like Buffalo Bill's Wild West show. I have to find some old papers and sources, but one popular myth that came out of that show was that the myth that all indians wore feathers. In realality, a small group of indians, which happened to be working for Buffalo Bill wore them. --ZeWrestler Talk 12:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
I don't mind the fiction .... but it is now 75% fiction - 25% non-fiction. A time line and other historical facts should be put in to boost parity. Sincerely, JDR
[edit] Railroads
The info on the railraods @ the close of the west is lacking. I'll try to put it in some times if someone doesn't beat me to it. JDR 20:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Article historical reference
The article was mostly compose of other wikipedia articles. Is there a problem with that? .... go look @ the wlnk article here @ wikipedia. JDR 22:46, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
- I don't believe there is such a thing as the "Frontier Strip" but the Old West definitely also included the states west of the states so identified. Is it okay to go ahead and try to fix things like that or does a collaboration need some kind of vote. Also, IMHO, this article should be mainly historical with most of the fiction referred to Western fiction. HombreX 07:09, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Early explorers and trappers: Section Notes
The "Early explorers and trappers" section needs to be expanded to include mentions of the expeditions of General William Henry Ashley and his partner, Major Andrew Henry. They were also involved in the fur trade/fur business. One of the men already mentioned in that section, Mike Fink (also a fur trapper), supposedly attended one or more of Ashley's expeditions and died on one of them. That would be a good way to tie them together.
One good reference I have found so far is [1]
--Naha|(talk) 19:33, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Map
It would be useful to add a map showing the historic area that was considered 'The West', prior and during the period of settlement. The map at Western United States shows the current West, but a similar one showing the 'Old West' would be of interest to non-American readers. --MichaelMaggs 21:21, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Kurosawa
"It is a common misconception that Akira Kurosawa's film Yojimbo was influenced by certain spaghetti westerns, though quite the reverse is true."
He may not have been influenced by spaghetti westerns, but he definitely was influenced by westerns: he cites John Ford as his primary inspiration. 71.232.96.127 01:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Is this notable enough to mention?
276 hits for that exact phrase. Or is it more appropriate in the Internet article? Or does it count as original research to point this out?--Planetary 06:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
