Talk:American English

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Former featured article American English is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article Milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
  1. 2002-2004
  2. January-August 2005
  3. September 2005 – November 2006

Contents

[edit] The American English vs. British English section is lacking.

See Murphy, R., English Grammar In Use, 2nd Ed., from Cambridge University Press, Appendix 7, "American English," pages 282, 283, for a concise list of grammatical differences. I'd add them myself if I had the time, but I don't. Some examples: British: The past participle of "get" is "got." (Your English has got much better.) American: The pp is "gotten." (Your English has gotten much better.)

Americans use simple past tense in places where Brits do not, ie. "I just ate." This is not done in the U.K.. "I've just eaten," would be said. Americans might use the present perfect as well, interchangeably.

Brits live in a street, Americans live on a street.

The source lists fourteen such differences.

Cheers, peace, God bless America, save The Queen, and help us all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.242.105.172 (talk) 07:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

All this and much more in American and British English differences & spinoffs. JackLumber. 19:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latino English & south-western dialects

I don't see anything here, or in American English regional differences, or any separate articles on Latino English & Southwestern dialects. Surely this is a major omission(?) It struck me today when I was talking to a friend who has spent most of her life in west Texas and who has a distinctive style of speech to other Texans. When it is noticeable to a foreigner, it has to mean something! Grant65 | Talk 05:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I've noticed the accent of native English-speaking Texan Chicanos too. It's reminiscent of (but different from) the accent of Native Americans (which was parodied in the South Park episode "Red Man's Greed"). My sister lived for a while in the Rio Grande Valley and picked up the local accent--which is nothing like the Southern-influenced Texas accent of Anglos--, and when I went to visit her, I picked it up too very quickly. And I'm not the sort of person who usually picks up the local accent of wherever I'm visiting. But it can only be discussed on Wikipedia if there's published research on it that can be cited. —Angr 06:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
The friend I am referring to is an Anglo, rather than a Latina or native American, but seems to share some of the phonology of those groups, if not their vocabulary. I have just found Spanglish, which is semi-relevant, but is not intended as a an article about a regional variety of English, espcially not that spoken by non-Latinos. I think there should be an article called Southwestern American English or whatever. Grant65 | Talk 17:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Indeed, but it still needs to be based on published research so as to be verifiable. That's something of an uphill battle with articles on English dialects, but it's policy nevertheless. —Angr 19:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Cleanup Co-Ordination Point

Cleanup Co-ordination
This article has recently been tagged as requiring cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards.

The article may have been flagged as needing cleanup because it has been suggested that:

  • the article needs formatting, proofreading, or rephrasing in comprehensible English.
  • the article has multiple overlapping problems.
  • the article is very short and might need expanding, removal or merging with a broader article

For a full list of possible problems see Wikipedia:Manual of Style.

As part of the cleanup process, the automated bot PocKleanBot has generated this notice as a focus of cleanup efforts, and also contacted several contributing editors of the article to bring their attention to the problem. You should use this section to discuss possible resolution of the problem and achieve consensus for action. Only when there is a consensus that the article is now cleaned up should you then de-list it by deleting the cleanup tag from the article, this causes the article to drop off the monthly cleanup-needed list page.

[edit] Discussion

I received the notice from the bot, but I'm not clear exactly what the problem is here. Is the "Phonology" section considered too technical? The links included in the section should help anyone unfamiliar with IPA or linguistics terminology. Can we present the information in a clearer way? What needs to be done here? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I tagged with need of references and cleanup cause of too many expamples on Vocabulary. Maybe need more references please discuss that. Cleanup really is needed for vocab section because of we can't catalogue all examples and forms. Maybe bit rash and reckless in tagging if after consensus cleanup, add references, or remove tags.Randalllin 06:16, 19 December 2006 (UTC) As said by another tag most info unverified.Randalllin 06:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BRAVO!!

Just wanted to give mad props ;) to whoever wrote up the vocabulary section. Tis excellent, and even features correct use of itals when using words as words. Just lovely. jengod 19:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] En-US Redirect

Also put this comment on the En-US article talk page. I don't know where this comment should go for redirects, or how to make the necessary changes myself. I think the En-US article should lead to a disambiguation page. Not everyone who goes to En-US is looking for the entry on American English. It might also lead to ISO_639 or a more specific page that explains what en-US, en-UK, etc. are (I'm looking for a list of all the different XX-*). If this doesn't belong here please remove. Thanks, -cm, 216.216.191.196 22:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Prestige"

I agree with the edit which removed the comment about General American English pronunciation being somehow more prestigious than pronunciation which shows identifiable regional characteristics. There might be prestige issues with people who code-switch between SAE and AAVE. I think making broad, sweeping generalizations like this is out of place.

On another topic, please sign in when making edits. Let us know that you are part of the Wiki community, even if only once in a blue moon. Cbdorsett 05:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I do recall seeing in a fairly old video called "American tongues" that stated that people generally prefer to remove the aspects of their speech that is marked when they communicate professionally with members of other American speech communities but I hardly consider that a noteworthy source. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 08:26, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
William Labov published a paper back in the 60s showing that people in New York City suppress their non-rhoticity when asked to repeat what they just said, and that rhoticity there increases with social standing. —Angr 08:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Okay, you win. I agree with you. Put the text back in, together with citations to the works you guys are talking about. But reword it slightly so that it's not a sweeping generalization. Thanks for contributing. Cbdorsett 09:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Phonology

The phonology section fails to mention something that I found a striking feature of US pronunciation: the omission of t at words' ends. Internet becomes Inderneh, wait becomes waih and set becomes seh, at least at sentences' ends. Perhaps this is a consequence of t becoming d, but often there's really practically nothing of any consonant left. 24.149.191.136 03:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

That's true, it doesn't mention that. It comes close to it though. I'll see what I can do. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 06:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Could it be the reason it doesn't mention that is that there's no published evidence of such a deletion? I've heard /t/ get glottalized to a glottal stop, but I've never noticed it being omitted completely or replaced by /h/ as the above comment seems to imply. —Angr 07:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Or how about "little" pronounced "lihhle"... as in "With a Little Bit of Luck", as sung by Eliza's old Cockney father (Stanley Holloway) in My Fair Lady? I've heard that pattern imitated by the Monty Python guys (by Michael Palin, specifically, I think) and I've heard Brits in my own company talk that way. How you precisely define that speech oddity, I couldn't say. Wahkeenah 09:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't know either, but this article is about American English, so Stanley Holloway and Michael Palin are kinda irrelevant. —Angr 12:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
So, the argument is this only occurs in British English? Well, I've heard it in American English, just rather less often. Wahkeenah 12:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
T-glottalization at the end of a word (especially when the word is at the end of a breath group) is common in several varieties of English on both sides of the herring pond, and is well documented in the literature. But replacing it with /h/ or deleting it altogether without so much as a glottal stop in its place, which is what the anon seems to be talking about and what I assume you mean by "lihhle", is not as widely discussed in the literature, and I'd like it be sourced before it's added. And anything that gets added to this article needs to be about American English. —Angr 12:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the anon was talking about T-glottalization. H is a funny letter, especially in Germanic languages and in nonstandard English spelling can be used after a vowel to attempt to indicate alternative vowel pronunciations. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 13:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, the h was just to underline the perceived pronunciation: as opposed to Innerneh, Innerne might have been read as in-uhrn. Meant was merely the disappearance of the t. (PS: It even happens when it's not the word's last letter: communicate becomes communicaih.) 24.149.191.136 01:00, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Invention or evolution?

I heard that it was invented to try and schism from proper English as much as possible, is this correct? And if so when and why and by who? 211.30.71.59 04:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the tone of your comment pretty well explains the "why" part. >:) Wahkeenah 05:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
The comment doesn't make sense, since American English is proper English. Anyway, the answer is no, of course not. Language evolves naturally over time, and on the rare occasions when someone tries to force language to change in a certain direction, it never works. In the case of American English and English English, both varieties have changed over the last 300 years; in some respects, English English is more conservative and American has evolved away from the older form, but in other respects, American is more conservative and English English has evolved away from the older form. And in still other cases, both varieties have evolved away from the older form, so that neither of them is conservative, though other varieties like Scottish English might be. —Angr 06:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
If he's talking about the simplified spelling (such as dropping the "u" from words like "colour"), I think Noah Webster had something to do with that. But it's true that pronunciation and spelling evolve. Look at Aussie English, for that matter. And what about the variants within the U.K. itself? Or within the U.S. itself? As a side note, it's interesting to read the U.S. Constitution, and to notice that all the Nouns are capitalized, German and/or legalese style, which is generally not done anymore except for proper nouns. Also, there's this business of "Received Pronunciation" (which I take to mean "Royal Pronunciation" or "The King's/Queen's English". Apparently one thing they apparently failed to "receive" was the trailing "R". I guess it was hijacked by the Scottish, the Irish and the Americans, don'cha know. >:) Wahkeenah 12:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Apearantly, in Australia, there is a tendancy to avoid american spelling and, to a lesser extent, pronunciation, to the point that older signs are changed to adopt british spellings. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.69.118.1 (talk) 20:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC).
Apearantly sew. Wahkeenah 23:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Color Map Used Is Highly Inaccurate for MidSouth Region

It lists Tennesse, Louisania, and Kentucy as a dark blue, incicating a high prevalence of Ameerican-English speakers, when in these states there is a very high percentage of Spanish and Japanese speakers, especially in Tennessee.

I don't have a replacement, however...which goes against my mantra of "don't bitch if ya can't fix it." I'll try to look for one.

Thanks --161.45.243.201 17:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

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