Talk:American Championship Car Racing

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This article was nominated for deletion on 25th July 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

[edit] Article title

If I am reading this right, there isn't an actual series called American Championship Car Racing. If that is the case, shouldn't the article title be something like History of open wheel racing in the U.S.? Recury 14:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Possibly to be more accurate, shouldn't it be History of U.S. open wheel racing series? (All on the page, even the Vanderbilt cup could qualify, whereas F1 and the likes wouldn't.)-slowpokeiv 17:32, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

There isn't a series with the name, but it kind of like a "class" of racing.--RA64 21:53, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

No one has been able to provide any sources showing that "Championship Car" or anything similar is a class of racing as described in this article. Even if it is, it certainly isn't a very common term for it, so IMO it should be moved to one of the above suggestions. Recury 14:36, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm probably getting too involved/taking this discussion personally, so I am going to step out of it, but want to make a few final comments. The article as written does not fully represent open wheel racing in the U.S. It is really just related to what is now the IRL and the CCWS. It does not include anything about Indy Lights, Formula/Toyota Atlantic, sprint car, midget car, etc. Furthermore, I don't think that the article should be expanded for the purpose of adding that information. That being said, the name of the article is troubling, because of the Indycar and Champ Car spilt. I will go with the consensus, but ask that the title somehow reflect that the article is about those 2 series, not about open-wheel in general. I do have AWB, so I can make any necessary article changes once a decision is made. --Brian G 16:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Championship car is a class of racing. i believe it comes for the USACs series, from the 50s to 70s called the national championship trail. This term has evolved into the best term to refer to the top level of American open wheel auto racing. The reason everything is so ambiguous is due to the current Champcar/IRL split. In the 80s and 90s, the popular term for the top level of american open wheel racing was evolving to "Indy Car" however, IMS trademark this term, and it can no longer refer to the generic class of racing. Other less common genaric terms for this class of racing include "indy style" and I think in the past "big car" and "gold crown." Champcars trademarked (i think) name comes from championship car. The class does not include lower open wheel formulas such as atlantics, sprint cars, etc.--RA64 03:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

can anyone provide an overview of what articles there are currently on this topic (i.e. those that would be daughter articles of this one). Considering those might give us a better feel for what this overarching article should be. 4u1e

articles on this topic would be the articles on the sanctioning bodies that have held championship car races, namely AAA, USAC, IRL, CART and Champcar.--RA64 03:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I propose renaming the current Champ car article Champ Car World Series and creating a seperate article for CART. Champ car and Indy car would redirect to this article. This creates a distinction between each seperate series and the genaric class. This article title could remain the same or perhaps be shortened to Championship Car Racing.--RA64 03:29, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your proposals for both Champ Car World Series and CART. A racing league should be called by its official name and if CART is a seperate entity, it should have a seperate article. About Indy Car though, so what if its trademarked? That doesn't affect us any. They can't sue us for calling what has been called many times in many publications "Indy car" just because they trademarked it. I would propose renaming this article Indycar or Indy car (but not IndyCar or Indy Car, this is about the generic phrase used to describe these kinds of cars, so it is not a proper noun) and adding other information besides just the history here. Recury 14:03, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

perhaps Indycar is allowed, but it has dropped out of use as a genaric term in the past 10 years. It would be too confusing with one specific series called IRL IndyCar. --RA64 05:34, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

We can make the distinction in the article if we have to, it's no big deal. Decline in usage or not, do you really hear people calling this stuff "Championship car racing" more than "Indy car racing?" I've never heard the first and have heard the second probably dozens of times. Recury 06:25, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The highest class of formula, or open-wheel, racing in the United States has been referred to as the Championship-class, the American equivalent of the FIA's Formula (Class) One, since the 1920s by the AAA. Paul Page, long-time motorsports commentator, Voice of the 500, and ABC telecast anchor in racing, referred to them in the broadcast of the 1990 Indianapolis 500 as "The Championship cars, the IndyCars..." The fact of the matter is that any claim by either political body to being the 'true' class one of American motorsports is hampered by the fact that the machines on either side have always been "up to par" on technical specifications of such things as suspension, wheel-base and toe-in, if not equal in the nature of the kind of engines, turbocharged or normally-aspirated, that they run. Political infighting and name-calling between the two factions aside, "Championship racing" is a technical term...it is the pinnicle of car design for pure racing purposes in the United States, and has had co-national champions from 1996 to the present. --Chr.K. 11:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AfD

I closed the AfD for this article as keep, with no consensus on the move. The proposed title was "History of Open Wheel Racing in the U.S.". I've got no opinion on it, but I bring it up as the AfD turned into a "what title should it have" discussion. --james^(talk) 10:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)