Talk:Amen break
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The Amen break was even included as one of a few preset rhythms in the Windows digital audio sequencing and remixing program The Tuareg by professional programmer Bram Bos. The program focuses on the rhythmic manipulation of .WAV (RIFF WAVE) audio files. The Tuareg later evolved into Tu2 (Tuareg 2), and later into TunaFish which added VST and VSTi support for effects and instruments.
is this really relevant or necessary? i don't think so. Dreamyshade 21:21, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Yeah I think so. Dates on stuff like this would be nice though, as referring to the "rhythmic manipulation of wav files" sounds like it was a fairly fresh concept at the time :) [1]
Not necessary. It was included in many programs as grooves, rhytms, samples and a lot of other stuff, doesn't need to be mentioned I think. Reezpekt.
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[edit] Richard L Spencer complaint
The founder of The Winstons added the following text to the article:
It is known that the drummer, G.C. Coleman,nor the copyright owner Richard L. Spencer,the grammy award winning composer and performer of the hit "Color Him Father," has never received any royalties for the sampling.It is once again the old habit of euro-centricity of copying and then claimimg the ideas of Black people.From the whites on the plantations in the south who chalked their faces with black soot and created Amos and Andy, as well as Al Jolson, to Benny Goodman hiring Black arrangers to write the music scores that made him "the king of swing,"to the shameful theft of R&B music from the Blacks like Chuck Berry, Little Richard,and others, by white music pimps who "created' someting called Rock and Roll, and installed Elvis,Jerry Lee Lewis,The Beatles, and other marginally talented souls, who of course , made billions while we die in poverty.So what else is new? Brittany Spears and M&M?
The text was posted form a computer in US (Charlotte) so I assume it was the real Richard Spencer. Mr Spencer, if it was really you please tell us how we can get in touch with you. I think something should be done regarding the royalties, it's not fair. Greetings.
- LOL. let's track all songs using the sample, the authors (thieves) ans get da money! i would be glad to hear a break of my music used in so many tracks! whether i'm greedy or not is another question... sampling is just part of modern music, it would endanger art to sue people sampling records or ask them money, as long as something different was made from the original record. let's not be people from the past... besides, even if legally spencer is the copyright owner, he would no less be a thief for collecting money when he was not the drummer.
- how many computers does charlotte count btw? don't get why he's assumed to be the author.
- the break was used in hip-hop (black music) before it was used in "white" music. because people liked it doesn't mean they wanted to steal the blacks again. what happened with blues & jazz (sad story that is part of the history of slavery) does not aply here imo. it's just a 5 seconds break for ****'s sake, not a musical genre.
my 2 pence. Yawn g 05:46, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
This guy needs to keep in mind that perhaps one of the most famous usages of the Amen break is NWA - Straight Outta Compton. 68.221.205.180 20:57, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Stupid image/phrase
removed the image and its caption("the most influential 5.[xx] seconds in electronic music history"). It adds nothing. -mushroom
Stupid image? Got a better idea to visualise a sample loop? STOP REMOVING STUFF OR YOU GONNA GET BANNED! I know it's not your first time...
Why visualize it in the first place? It's a 5 second audio loop. Not to mention the caption is incredibly non-NPOV, along with much of the rest of the article (but I don't feel like cleaning that up right now). I think the image is pointless, but I won't delete it completely. The caption has to change, however. -mushroom
Amen is the only loop which created a new style of music. If you can prove it wrong please do.
But why is it the most influential? You can't verify a statement like that with facts. -mushroom
It was the most influential loop in history of electronic music because it was the only time when a simple 5sec sample break created a new subculture and new style of music. It is was used in thousands of tracks and it is the most often sampled break in history. Those are the facts.
Despite the fact that it's nearly impossibile to verify the statement "most often sampled break in history," I won't dispute it, simply because it is quite possibly true. However, the phrase "the most influential 5.20 seconds in the history of electronic music" is a very opinionated phrase, and it needs to be removed, along with many other things in the article. I mean, seriously, "The amen break is still to be found in many d'n'b tracks today and every dj knows that nothing is as sure to send the crowd wild as the amen break"? come on. that kind of wording doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. -mushroom
I think the image does add a small something to the article. I edited the caption to be neutral. Dreamyshade 05:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
- I like the image. Please keep it. Omphaloscope » talk 22:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The image is useless indeed, as it is a graphical repesentation of a sound that does not tell how the sound sounds. Well the pages *looks* better but beyond that it's useless, really, it has no point. if someone can tell what it adds apart from that, i'd be happy to know. Yawn g 05:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
"Amen is the only loop which created a new style of music. If you can prove it wrong please do." If you can prove it right please do... def a strange way of approaching knowledge: if something can't be proven wrong then it's right.Yawn g 05:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
"Amen is the only loop which created a new style of music. If you can prove it wrong please do." Really? I'm not so sure, in fact, this statement is blatantly inaccurate and fails to understand how Jungle (I'm presuming this is the genre you refer to) actually evolved, and what the components of the style are. The Amen break (or any specific break for that matter) did not in itself create a style or give rise to a subculture, it was only one element of a form that combined three existing genres in one: 1. Dub Reggae (the bass line, generally composed using low frequency sine tones and commonly refered to as sub-bass) 2. Soul (the vocal snippets, sometimes pitch shifted) 3. Funk (the breaks). Of course this template was subject to variation in terms of where the underlying components were sourced; but I would argue that this is a good starting point. You must also appreciate that what initially distinguished this genre of dance music from others was the dual time feel. The bass line was in cut time, while the full tempo break rolled over the top; with the vocal elements often serving to moderate between the two extremes. The three main components had all made appearances in a multitude of music’s prior to the emergence of Jungle/DnB but it was the unique Afro-Caribbean culture in London (arguably) that gave rise to this sound. I really think there is far too much significance being attributed to the influence of the Amen break and I'm sure if you could draw producers - from back in the day - into this debate, they would agree. We could sit here and name check dozens of influences on what would eventually become Jungle/DnB the Amen break is ultimately a tiny part of the equation.
[edit] Sound sample?
Any chance of getting a sound sample (or a link to one) here? Without hearing it, I have no idea how the amen break sounds. Riki 08:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- [2] I found a clip here. Click where it says: "Download des Breaks: Amen Brother (WAV/2,5MB)". I don't know if Wikipedia can host this, as it is officially copyrighted accorded to Nate Harrison's video (see external links). Omphaloscope » talk 22:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- You can also watch Harrison's documentary about it. He plays the clip early in the video. Omphaloscope » talk 22:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- Of course, Wikipedia can host copyrighted material under fair use provisions. I've included the clip in the article. Omphaloscope » talk 23:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for the clip! Riki 08:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- Of course, Wikipedia can host copyrighted material under fair use provisions. I've included the clip in the article. Omphaloscope » talk 23:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sound Program!
There used to be this program back in 1995-1999 which was called 'Amen!'. It could be downloaded, though I can't find it on the net anymore. Anyone finding it please contact me ( mailto:creativecontest@hotmail.com ). It used to have the original loop, and could break it up into as many pieces you'd like. playing those back in whatever order you would want. Maybe I'm getting it wrong, but I thought this program used to be freeware.
[edit] YouTube links
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. ---J.S (t|c) 04:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Not most sampled
"The 'Amen Break' or 'Amen' is the most frequently used sampled drum loop in hip hop, jungle and drum and bass music"
No? If so, how do you explain that website The Breaks lists only 32 sampling songs for it [3] as it lists 182 sampling songs, almost 6 times more, for the Funky Drummer? [4]
I get the feeling that it's all because that YouTube video claims that it's the most sampled break ever that it made it to this article. I mean, what backs that claim besides that video? Apparently nothing, therefore I'm editing that line, and please don't bring it back unless you can prove that it's been more frequently sampled than the Funky Drummer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]).
- As a non-drummer I have difficulties to distinguish between them. Happily ever after 15:52, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Drumming tabs
Could someone please write a caption? What do the letters mean? H=Hi-hat and S=Snare? What is the K then? Kick bass? Happily ever after 15:52, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
