Talk:Amedeo Modigliani
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The title of one of Modiglian's most well known paintings was removed by ZOE. I have reinstated this important factual information. Too, Modigliani's nationality was determined by ZOE alone to be Italian. This was done by her without facts, and obviously no knowledge of him, his life, or his works. I removed it, leaving FACTS which is what an enclclopedia is supposed to be. Too, she arbitrarily removed my reference to this important painting. Go figure, but then, ignorance is bliss...DW
My removal of the painting's name was unintentional. When I reverted the arbitrary changes you made, I left in the change that you made when you put the title back in. I don't even know why I'm responding to this, because I told you I wasn't going to be talking to you any more unless you learn how to be civil. So consider this my last message. -- Zoe
Not only are you destructive to this sight, you try to cover it up by lies. This is not an "isolated" accident. It is you playing God after I pointed out your ignorance and lack of knowledge YESTERDAY. PLEASE explain to everyone your reason for removing the title. I'm sure people would like to know before they expend energy doing hard work that you will "unintentionally" destroy....DW ESQ
A little more proof of your conduct: YOU SAID ABOVE:I left in the change that you made. Right, so what about the next change when I reinstated the reference to the portrait in the text, text that took me hours to prepare but seconds for you to wilfully destroy? Nice play on words to cover up your destruction. I don't object to any improvements and certainly recognize my dedicated work can always stand imporovement. But why do you choose to destroy important facts, then lie and manipulate your words to deceive readers? I'm sorry, I just don't understand this kind of thinking, nor do I understand why you would even touch a subject on WHICH YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...DW
- How on earth did it take you "hours" to write "including "Madame Pompadour" shown here"?Tokerboy
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- Please don't feed the trolls. --Brion 05:28 Jan 27, 2003 (UTC)
I reinstated the following important reference that was deleted by ZOE: --- including "Madame Pompadour" shown here,--- I would like her to explain how this is either Wikifying an article or adding to it, or improving it?
DW, if you explained why you don't think he should be described as Italian, others may very well agree with you. Is he known to have objected to being called Italian? Did he self-identify as something else? Is there a debate over his nationality? For example, my grandmother could be correctly called Italian because she moved to the US from Italy, and was born there. She would self-identify as Sicilian, though, and would not like to be called Italian as she considers the nationalities distinct, and actually doesn't like Italians too much. If, for some bizarre reason, she warranted a wikipedia article, she should be called Sicilian and not Italian. I, on the other hand, am nearly 100% Sicilian in ancestry, but self-identify as Italian (in the US; elsewhere, I would say American). I wouldn't object to my nationality being referred to as Sicilian, but, if asked, I say Italian (and would do so even if being Sicilian did not lead to Mafia-related questions most of the time). Hence, if I had a wikipedia article, I should be called Italian-American with maybe a mention that I'm descended from Sicilian immigrants. Tokerboy
You've called this an "arbitrary" distinction and the like. While all nationalities are arbitrary, they are also real things that deserve to be mentioned where appropriate. What makes you think that it is inappropriate in this case? (Or do you not think biography articles should never mention a person's nationality?) Tokerboy
- I don't *know* what DW's point was, but I can guess. Since Modigliani was racially Jewish, DW was probably upset that Modigliani was classified as an Italian. DW could either have been offended due to a sense of credit for Modigliani being "stolen" from the Jews, or due to a desire to "protect" Italian racial purity, although I have no idea which. In Tokerboy's hypothetical wikipedia entry, he would call himself an Italian-American. Perhaps similarly we could classify Modigliani as a "Jewish-Italian", but that phrase would never have been used by the man himself. As far as how Modigliani identified himself, I know little beyond the fact that he occasionally introduced himself as "a painter and a jew". Still - calling him an "Italian Artist" reflects only one vision of the facts.
DW, you have given no-one any reason why this page should not follow standard style. If there is a reason why Italian should not be used here, say it. If not, stop tampering with this page. And stop making childish threats to vandalise pages of people who touch 'your' pages. JTD 03:31 Jan 30, 2003 (UTC)
The content below was posted at Modigliani, now a redirect. Charles Matthews 11:25, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Amadeo Modigliani (1884-1920) was an Italian painter and sculptor who was concerned with simplicity of line and form in the human figure. He is popularly known for his oval-faced portraits of friends and acquaintances.
Modigliani's style was unique among his contemporaries in Paris, surrounded as he was by artists experimenting with impressionism, surrealism, and cubism.
Ill health, in particular pneumonia and tuberculosis, affected him throughout his life. He died of tubercular meningitis at the age of 36. His fame rocketed after his death, and he is now considered the leading artist of the Paris School.
[edit] Recent sale
I added fact about the recent sale of a Modigliani painting of his then lover, Jeanne. I site the following link : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4118496.stm .
I am somewhat bothered by the statement "...and the few paintings that change hands can sell for more than $15.6 million." Exactly where does the figure $15.6 million come from ?
Thanks to everybody who has contributed to this article !
- KLestes
[edit] Overemphasis on personal life
I was quite surprised to see what a small proportion of this page was devoted to Modigliani's art. No doubt his personal life is relevant, but at the moment the page reads like tabloid character assassination (e.g. philanderer in the first paragraph), virtually ignoring his significance as a portrait painter. Furthermore a lot of the details about his personal life, particularly his sexual exploits, are unsourced and fail to make the distinction between legend and events which are actually known to have happened. I don't have the knowledge to fix this myself, so am adding a standards tag. Zargulon 12:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- I've made a start at this, trimming some of the more tabloid-like material and POV, citing a couple of facts, and adding citation requests to some others. The amount of work needed on this article is certainly daunting, and I ran out of steam by the Personal Life section, which I think would benefit from heavy pruning. More information about the significance of his painting would be even more beneficial. —Celithemis 02:49, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Agreed! I did some editing for coherence, but really the entire entry is devoted to his personal life.
JNW 23:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
It's hard to talk about Modigliani without getting caught up in his life, don't you think?
This is a good point, though, so I'm trying to trace his development as an artist; hopefully that strategy will address matters. It will still be necessary to talk about how his life influenced his development as an artist, though.
I'm working my way slowly through the tomes that my local libraries have on Modigliani, so hopefully the details that I am adding from these sources are 'facts', rather than conjecture, gossip, and rumour.
Oh, and I'll try to work the word 'hashish' in as often as possible, as it seems to be someone's mission in life to show the world that Modigliani smoked marijuana.
Personally, I think he preferred absinthe; if only the green fairy hadn't been made illegal...
Trenavin 04:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Personal life
Of course it's hard not to get drawn into his life story (so satisfyingly tawdry), and, as with any artist, not easy to separate it from his work. It's a matter of finding the right balance for an encyclopedic entry, which you, Trenavin, and previously Celithemis, are working to provide. JNW 02:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
- While it is wrong to blank a large part of an entry, the recent deletion of the 'personal life' section might go a long way to striking just that right balance. JNW 19:51, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
