Category talk:American liberals

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[edit] This category is applied inconsistently & wrongly

I'm not sure that it's correct to list Category:Democrats (United States) as a subcategory of "American liberals"; there are certainly democrats who are not liberal by any understanding of the term. ... Moreover, I question the general application of this term to the wide variety of lefitsts and radicals it has been applied to. Ani DiFranco, for instance, is a radical, as is bell hooks -- "liberal" is not an appropriate category to apply. It makes me think this category is too vague, and the term "liberal" is too "POV" in the US at this time, for it to be consistently and reasonably applied. --lquilter 04:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore why use the term 'liberal' as it is commonly understood in the United States? The use of the word in the United States is perverse and is not in common use in any other part of the English speaking world. No where but America does socialist necessarily imply liberalism. Was Stalin a liberal for heaven sake? Domminico 11:36, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes, by whom is socialism defined as a subset of American liberalism? Political theorists wouldn't do so; nor would socialists; nor would liberals. Who? --lquilter 14:50, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
    • This is a repost of something I posted on my talk page:While I can understand where you're coming from, one has to consider in the U.S. the term "liberal" means a very different thing than in other countries. Is is generally used interchangably with "left-wing". This is confusing, yes, but that's politics for you. Also, I wasn't the one who added Zinn. At any rate, I'd like to propose a title change to the American conservative/liberal categories. How about the titles "American Left-Wingers" and "American Right-Wingers", this would end most confusion, as the titles are much broader, but also much more specific. I'm not a member so I can't propose this change myself, but if anyone would be willing to for me, that would be great. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.37.166.168 (talk • contribs) 01:24 20 January 2007 (UTC).
    • My (contextually-edited) response is also cross-posted to 68.37.166.168's talk page. It follows here: Thanks for responding here; hope you also responded at the other discussion sites that I linked to above. With all due respect, your definition of the term "liberal" (interchangeable with "left-wing") is your definition. It's not an uncommon definition, but it's not at all universal in the US. There is no consensus, whatsoever, on what the term "liberal" means in the US; it's used in many different ways by many different communities. So using it to gather up "left-wing" is inherently a POV that adopts the definition of those communities who define liberal that way. Moreover, the fact that people are adding people to the category, that you might not, but that are liberals according to their own definitions should suggest to you that people use the term to mean different things. ... I hope this clarifies some of the problems that people see with this term. Best, lquilter 19:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
      • It's not my definition actually, but it's the definiton I assumed was being applied here. As American Conservatives seems to be a collective of right-wing figures, I assumed that American Liberals would be a collective of left-wing figures, simply because the US media tends to describe left-wingers as "liberal". I once again apologize for any confusion. I can start to remove some of the names I've added, unless anyone wants to take my suggestion on changing the names of the categories. -- 68.37.166.168
      • Actually, thanks for the offer, but please don't depopulate the category while the CFD is still going on -- per WP:CFD ("Unless the change is non-controversial (such as vandalism or a duplicate), please do not remove the category from pages before the community has made a decision."). It's easier for folks to see for themselves how the category is being used if it's kept in the same state as it was when the CFD nomination was made. --lquilter 20:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
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