Talk:Alpine hut

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aber es gibt auch ein wichtige Frage zu stellen: obwohl das Bild wirklich schön ist, was gibt es zu der Artikel? Wir haben schon zwei andere Bilder - zwei Bilder, die besser Bilder von Hütten sind - und dieses zeigt nichts neu. Es gibt fast genauso viel Bild als es Text gibt, also vielleicht ist es besser dieses Bild zu löschen.

Can some better European than I, please render this in English :-( Bob aka Linuxlad 20:45, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I can, i'm the one who originally wrote it. its probably unnecessary in german, but im spending a year in Germany and was thinking in German as i wrote it (having just gotten back from school). It's in response to the reversion back to the three-picture page. It's important to ask, what does the third picture add to the article? Sure, it's a great picture...but we already have to pictures that not only suffice, they are better pictures of the huts themselves. This one adds nothing with regards to the article that isn't already shown in the other two. And right now, theres about as much image as there is text, so maybe it is better to get rid of this third picture.jfg284 23:30, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

If a picture needs to be removed, then it's the Australian one. The building shown there seems not to be an actual Alpine hut, as it apparently doesn't offer any sleeping places for mountaineers (it's obviously too small). Besides, it does not seem to be located in Alpine surroundings, but simply in some forest on a hill (at least that's what it looks like). I originally added the Payerhütte picture because it was available in commons at that time, and I thought it was very typical for a large hut in the Eastern Alps. It's also typical for the stunning setting huts sometimes are located in, which itself is highly relavant to the topic of the article. The French hut is much less typical in my experience because of the unusual architecture. Please also have a look at the German page which has a list of huts and a lot more pictures. Martg76 11:18, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

Oppose merge of alpine hut and climbing hut - the UK tradition of 'climbing hut' is very different from what would be conjured up in the mind of a German or French person by Alpine Hut. The distinction is useful, and not costly to keep. 'Ty powder' might just squeeze in, but the Count House? or any of the myriad of 'huts' in North Wales? Linuxlad 13:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Merging doesn't mean we pretend they're the same thing, it actually means we're better placed to describe what the *differences* are, rather than repeating all the similarities twice. Look at this strange sentence:

In the Alps the Alpine huts are placed near the start of glacier approaches, enabling an early start (an 'Alpine start') to be made safely on glaciated terrain. The huts are usually purpose-built, wardened during the summer season, and provide meals and refreshments to walkers.

That's in Climbing hut! By combing these two together, with Bothy and Wilderness hut perhaps, we could make the following key features of each clear:

• Where they're found
• Whether passers by can use them
• Whether they are staffed
• Whether they provide food, or just shelter

Do you agree? Stevage 13:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not know about Climbing Huts in the UK, but what is conjured up in the above remarks definitely is not true. Mountain huts in the alps can be everything, from big hotels (Franz Senn Hut, Konkordia hut) to normal mountaineering huts, to small huts not more than a room with a fire place. So the UK Climbing huts are nothing else than small huts. In the alpine clubs of Germany, Swizzerland and Austria there is a category system for mountain huts. Finally: Please forget the rubbish about "In the Alps the Alpine juts are placed near the start of a glacier approaches...". Take a look at the map of the alps and the huts, then you will see that there are hundreds of huts not close to any glacier. Norbusan 12:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Additional comment: From the definition of "category 1" huts in the alpine club: Huts which have to keep their original character as base for mountaineers and hikers. Simple style, simple food...not reachable with mechanical aids ... access at least 1 hour on foot. IT CAN BE WARDED, UNWARDED, or a BIVOUC! (big from me). SO I guess this definitely shows that Climbing huts are part of Alpine huts (if we accept that Alpine huts can occur outside the alps, too). Norbusan 12:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

So your final conclusion appears to be that Alpine Huts can be merged into Climbing Huts :-) (Rather than vice versa?) Linuxlad 19:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't sound like it to me. The term "alpine hut" refers to a large class of shelters, of which a UK "climbing hut" is one. But if we're on the track to mergism, where do we stop? Should all these articles be merged with hostels? Should all buildings be merged into a single article to better illustrate their differences? What about the extensive network refugios in the Dolomites?

I would suggest that sufficient differences exist to warrant separate articles for these different types of structures and accomodations. The fact that nobody here has been able to apply the time and effort to populate the articles with original prose does not diminish these differences, and thus is not an incentive to merge the articles.

This {{merge}} has been sitting around for many months. If there are no objections in the next week, I'll remove the merge tags on Friday November 10th.  ◉ ghoti 05:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry to be leaving my contribution to such a late stage, but I would support the merger. There is almost no difference between alpine huts and climbing huts. Their aims are the same - to provide basic accommodation for climbers and mountaineers in a mountainous area. Their organisation is much the same - they are run by climbing clubs on a non-commercial basis (usually); they may be either staffed or unstaffed. They look and work the same - both can be very small and very basic or big and not-so-basic. There is bigger difference between the different grades of alpine huts or climbing huts as there is between alpine huts in general and climbing huts in general. The argument that if we merge these we might as well merge with hostel doesn't add up - hostels can be located anywhere, mainly in towns, and are aimed at the general public. Rwxrwxrwx 11:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Argh, I was hoping for progress through disinterest.  :) Okay, so no change today. My initial instinct was to retain separate pages because I'm not familiar enough with this UK usage to know for sure different the meanings are. The two pages look pretty similar, but the only external references I can find seem to indicate that "Climbing hut", "Wilderness hut" and "Bothy" are all region-specific terms, while "Alpine hut" is used world-wide. Can anyone else, preferably with more direct knowledge of the usage of these terms in England and Europe, provide further wisdom?  ◉ ghoti 20:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the only difference really is that huts in the UK and Ireland can't claim to be "alpine" since the mountains are smaller, but if "alpine hut" is the generally-used term, I don't see why we can't just turn "climbing hut" into a redirect to this article, maybe adding a few words about the regional variations. Have a look at the picture in Irish Mountaineering Club; I took that photo yesterday. Rwxrwxrwx 20:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I am certainly sensitive to the concept of "alpine huts" that are not near mountains. The Alpine Club of Canada maintains a hut for traditional rock climbers on a lake in Bon Echo Provincial Park. Max three pitches, and most climbs start from the boat. There are no mountains in Ontario. I guess I'm struggling with whether WP articles should be per term or per concept.  :-P  ◉ ghoti 15:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)