Talk:Alpine butterfly knot

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Good addition, Sik0fewl. I was able to make one with my mouse cable. --Ben Brockert 21:38, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

  • Thanks. I hope to make a few more step by step image when I have time - sik0fewl 23:00, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Proposal for new knot page style

  • The following is a proposal for a new knot page style (the current ones are inconsistent and could use some fixing up). I think this is a decent layout, but I don't really like the floating images on the right side. Any elegant solutions for this? We may also want to use different categories in the table. - sik0fewl 23:00, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Image:AlpineButterflyKnot.jpg
Alpine butterfly knot
Alpine butterfly knot step-by-step
Alpine butterfly knot step-by-step
Canonical Name Alpine butterfly knot
Alternate Names Butterfly knot, Lineman's loop
Description A non-jamming loop tied on the bight.
Usage
  • The Alpine butterfly knot is a form of knot that is used by climbers and mountaineers
  • It can also be used to isolate a worn section of rope.
History Known since ancient times, compared to other knots that might be used for the same purpose it is stronger (does not reduce the strength of the rope by as much), and is secure if the knot gets wet.
Advantages
  • Does not reduce the strength of the rope by very much
  • Will not slip (after initial settling)
  • Allows for the knot to be loaded three ways (each end of the main line and by the loop)
  • Relatively easy to undo after loading (more difficult if wet)
Disadvantages
  • Difficult to tie one-handed
  • Requires some training/practice to master
  • If tied using some methods there is a potential to trap the hand if the line is loaded unexpectedly

[edit] Tying

To tie an alpine butterfly knot is tied by making two twists... (and so on).

[edit] External Links


(... and ends here. kmccoy (talk))

I think this style looks great, though you do make a good point about the images. I'll do some thinking/experimenting on that. I would also like to see a category for "strength" or something similar, to give an idea of the percentage loss of rope strength a knot causes (although it varies by rope type, I believe.) Thanks! kmccoy (talk) 06:44, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I wonder if this would be worthy of a project. kmccoy (talk) 18:14, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Apparantly it was already worthy of a project. :) Wikipedia:WikiProject_Knots kmccoy (talk) 18:16, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Butterly shown; NOT an Alpine Butterfly

The write-up is very good . . . except for one thing: It's NOT an "Alpine Butterfly". It is the standard "Butterfly". The "Alpine Butterfly" is depicted as the "Lineman's Loop". [Alpine ascents historically being lighter and quicker; thus the alternative to the Butterfly being named the Alpine Butterfly because it is (or can be) quicker and easier to tie.]

Alpine butterfly == Butterfly == Lineman's loop. They're all the same. There *is* another (probably quicker) way to tie the knot, which might be the source for confusion. The other way to tie this knot is shown here.
I changed the image to this method. It's clearer IMHO. Johan Andersson 16:08, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Breaking Strength

The breaking strength of the butterfly knot is 53% with both ropes loaded, and 67% loop loaded.

To elaborate further on the discussion between the Alpine Butterfly vs Butterfly, the Alpine version is a symmetrical knot, making the knot more secure. The only problem with this knot in general is that it is very difficult to casually inspect which version has been tied, and if it has been tied correctly at all. Practice with the Alpine version (three loops over one hand) and you will find it easy to repeat in the field.

I will make these edits on the main page to correct inaccuracies such as: "The addition of "alpine" to the name appears to be fairly recent and superfluous"

Silentspoon 15:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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