User talk:ALoan/Archive14

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Contents

[edit] Cricket Quiz

You were on the money with your answer of Gooch. Time to challenge the rest of us with your arcane cricketing knowledge. Cheers --Roisterer 03:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 2 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Paramarines, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] Thanks

Aloan, thanks for the comments. As I mentioned on my talk, I don't think I'm cut out for wikipedia. I'm a top down incremental writer. I start with an overview, see what it looks like and keep adding. It normally works out well in the end. As you said, I could have used my sandbox, IF I HAD KNOWN HOW TO DO IT (I took an hour reading various things on sub-pages) and IF I HAD KNOWN ABOUT IT. Anyway, thanks for the advice, cheerioMike 19:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Aloan, thanks for the kind words. Could you please, please, please do something about the way wikipedia treats people like me who want to help. The natural entry point int Wikipedia is the "create new page". If however you do that, its all down hill and completely demoralising. I've also a reluctance to use a "sandpit", I love climbing on children's playparks, but I only do it when I've got the excuse of taking the kids. But people would think I was mental if I went into a public place and started playing in a playpit. It is the kind of thing paedophiliacs do and I've got a cultural aversion to doing anything that might label me as such Mike 09:10, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks again !

ALoan, I just wanted to thank you for having solved this mediation cabal. I must confess that I'm really surprized about how big this thing has become. Anyway, the best in order to make sure that everything remains behind us would be probably to archive the discussion in the article's talk page, what do you think ? Metropolitan 20:53, 2 October 2006 (UTC).

Thanks. I am not really sure that I contributed very much, nor, indeed, that the mediation solved anything. I think the result is the best of a bad lot - I would still go with the original title every time. But thanks for your input - it is really your page, after all.
Anyway, I guess the discussion ought to stay where it is, but with a prominent link from the article's talk page. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:58, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Can't bear to look. What did they go with? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:00, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
List of tallest buildings and structures in the Paris region. As you can see, it is "taller" than the oh-so concise original List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris by five consonants, four vowels and two spaces, which must be a good thing. At least we managed to avoid List of tallest buildings and structures in Île-de-France or List of tallest buildings and structures in Île-de-France (Paris Region), although redirects now exist from virtually any name involving "building", "structure", "Paris" and another noun (urban area, metropolitan area, agglomeration...). Please, someone, persuade the French government to define Greater Paris.
Never argue with a Frenchman. Or an Italian, I might add. -- ALoan (Talk) 21:07, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry I missed this. I would have suggested "TALL FRENCH THINGS." Newyorkbrad 22:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 2 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Michael Pollock, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] other measures to stimulate the economy of the islands...

Hi, I see you added "<!--such as?-->" here. Well, all the examples before the tag (charging no tolls on bridges, and providing cheaper or free ferry tickets for islanders) are the answer to "such as?", and "other measures" indicates that those are not the only measures. I mean, I could add more measures (the whole law talks about measures, you bet theres hundreds of those), but I feel 2 measures are just fine, this is just list lead, not an article on government spending on islands... --Dijxtra 09:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, fine - thanks for responding so quickly. The previous wording, with "and various other measures" at the end, just left the sentence up in the air, and prompted the question, "what other measures?". I have changed the wording around now, so the examples given are introduced as examples of the "various measures". Is that ok? -- ALoan (Talk) 09:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Excellent. --Dijxtra 09:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Great - thanks for creating such a nice list. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neil Armstrong

i was a little confused about your edit to the Neil Armstrong talk page where you seem to be 'trimming' down the number of banners and discussions? maybe in you think these things aren't worth having on a talk page.. but the wikiproject banners are quite important - especially since they are rating the article. anyway, i have reverted your edit, except the valid changing of the fac tag to a failedfac tag. Mlm42 10:43, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sorry - I must have inadvertently edited an old version of the page. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paramarines on Raising flag article

Re:this edit - I don't think the fact that two of them were trained as parachutists is suffeciently important that it belongs in the intro. It definitely belongs in their respective articles (Block and Hayes) and maybe somewhere in the Raising the Flag article, but (IMO) not in the beginning. Raul654 11:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. Bang goes my high-profile in-link. As your previous edit summary said, I also can't see another elegant place to add it. It is interesting, to me at least, that 2 of them were from such a small element of the Marines (only 3 battalions). -- ALoan (Talk) 11:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:1 featured article per quarter

I just moved the above page to Wiki space with a view to encourage more FA writing. I thought it might be up your alley and that you might sign-up. It will only work if people know about it, so, if you think it's a good idea, pass it along. Marskell 15:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

An interesting idea. To be honest, I am more of a "fill red links" or "expand stubs" or "copyedit" person than a straight "write FA" person (unlike some people I could mention, whose FAs seem to drip effortlessly from their pens - can you tell how jealous I am?). Having said that, I am - cross fingers - on course for another one in the next few weeks... if I ever find the time to finish off the last part, that is... And my collection of redlinks is badly neglected at the moment.
Is the intention that people would sign up for several quarters in advance, naming the articles that they will work on? Because it is quite nice to be able to work up an article quietly before unveiling it on an adoring public :) And it is also nice to be able to alight on a topic and write it up, without feeling bound to write about something else instead. For example, I did an obscure mathematician and an American war hero so far today. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:42, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
The main idea, to be honest, is to get people to think "ya, I should write one" who wouldn't otherwise. As noted in the Considerations, if it lists what was going to happen anyway there is no harm but also no benefit. I left a note for you and (so far) a half-dozen other people involved in FA not so much to prompt them to work (which you and they do anyway) but to create a bit of a snowball (i.e., tell all your friends).
The list also creates a bit of urgency—it's easy to get 80% there with an article and then kind of forget about that last bit of polish (I want to avoid this with Barnard's star, so knowing I've listed will keep it in my mind).
If you'd like to keep what you're working on under wraps, no problem—though of course there's much to be said for having people look at it. As far quarters in advance, I've only listed two but it could be expanded. Marskell 15:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article about the Paris Metro

Hi ALoan, I've worked a bit on the Paris metro article since it's been rated three monthes ago as B-Class. As you're obviously very experienced about wikipedia, could you give me some advices about what to improve in order to obtain the status of a featured article ? Thanks a lot. :-) Metropolitan 17:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC).

I'll have a look, but it is not a topic I know very much about. Have you tried peer review? Are there any relevant WikiProjects whose members could help? (Transport? trains? cities? France?) -- ALoan (Talk) 09:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Summer of four captains

Some great work there, particularly in linking to the article from those of various characters. Was PBH May the England supremo at the time? --Dweller 18:42, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. An interesting article - it needs more references, though, and then it would be WP:DYKable. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh - I see it is there already. It really needs some references. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:59, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Happy to do so, and thanks for the praise. However, I'm not very good (experienced) at that! Please can you help me by a) bunging in a few of those "fact" tags and b) doing one reference for me to copy the format. Thanks! --Dweller 12:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Surprised and delighted to find the article was referenced on DYK. That's my first. Did you recommend it? Thank you. --Dweller 10:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

No, as it happens, it was jguk, but my suggested wording was used. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, thanks for that. Feels good to get recognition that I've contributed something the community finds of interest. (Even if the Cowdrey comment wasn't by me!) --Dweller 12:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
WP:DYK is perhaps the easiest way to get something you have written on the Main Page. If you write a new article, or considerable expand a short old one, bear it in mind. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Calmness

I am calm because I know that it does not matter. bobblewik 19:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, your equanimity does you credit. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rhino Attack

Congrats on your main-paging today, ALoan! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 00:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

  • How fantastic it is to see one nice think on Wikipedia today, well done. I think it's a lovely page, I always have done ever since it was a baby! Giano 06:27, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Thank you :) Shall I make a joke about "the horn". Snigger. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gmail

I will send you an invitation, but I have to know the e-mail account where to send it. Could you contact me via e-mail? --Ghirla -трёп- 12:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, not without having an anonymous e-mail in the first place - I don't use my private (and identifiable) e-mail for wiki business: I used to receive but not send, but this has been limiting of late, not least because I currently can't receive!
Could you post a URL for me to click on or something? -- ALoan (Talk)
Try this: http://mail.google.com/mail/a-6e40feca89-55776906d4-5ccc61e0f9 --Ghirla -трёп- 12:33, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Is it working? --Ghirla -трёп- 12:39, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! Enabled.-- ALoan (Talk) 13:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

"It seems that we all feel undervalued. Group hug, everyone, now. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:39, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah... *hug* -- Grafikm (AutoGRAF) 20:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh, much better. Shall we try some validation too? Repeat after me: we are all good people; we all respect and value each other; we all assume that the others are acting in good faith; we are all building an encyclopedia. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:31, 4 October 2006 (UTC)"
  • I'm still giggling (for the first time in weeks on wikipedia) - cheers! --Mcginnly | Natter 22:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, I am happy that you are happy :) My rhino was on the Main Page and all is right with the world. (I think... better see how the dice are falling at ArbCom...) -- ALoan (Talk) 08:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved although no consensus

Can you explain why you moved the List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris to List of tallest buildings and structures in the Paris region? There was (and still is) no consensus for that move. What you did by moving this article is basically giving a green light to ThePromenader's uncompromising and tedious attitude. Basically, ThePromenader can only conclude that it works to harass people till the point where harassment becomes so unbereable that they give in. Thanks for that ALoan. Hardouin 20:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Besides, I note that the exact same problems remain. The "Paris region" title suggests some sort of regional list, like a list of tallest buildings in Catalonia, or a list of tallest buildings in New England, and does not convey the idea that this is essentially a city list because all these skyscrapers are at the center of the very dense Paris metropolis. Hardouin 21:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, that was the result of the mediation. I gave up when I was the only one arguing for the status quo. On the bright side, this was the best of the bad choices that were on offer. I was slightly surprised to find out afterwards that he seems to have absolutely no interest in its contents.
Yes, I agree, his uncompromising and tedious attitude has indeed achieved what he wanted. Shrug. Life is difficult enough without having to bear, as you put it, "harassment" arising from a disagreement about the title of an article about tall buildings. I would move Río de la Plata to River Plate, for example, but I will manage without. -- ALoan (Talk) 21:18, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
What you don't realize is that you've opened the Pandora box. This user was puting so much energy in this because it was a defining moment for him. I've seen all his edits for a year now, so I know him better than you do. All he's ever tried to do was to deny the reality of the Paris metro area. Of course he's clever and will never admit it upfront. But when you look at his edits, insidiously you can't help noticing that they tend toward this goal: Paris is the City of Paris, period, and let's hide as much as possible the existence of a 11 million people metro area: (e.g., removing that the highest point in the Paris urban area is at 640 ft in the Forest of Montmorency, and leaving only that the highest point in the City of Paris is at 426 ft on top of Montmartre: [1]). Now he will use this title change as a justification for changes in further articles. His next target is already Economy of Paris, which he wants to rename "Economy of Île-de-France. He also wants to remove all metro area economic data from this article and replace them with Île-de-France regional data. Then there's also the Paris article which he has hinted many times that it needs major "changes". Not to mention that he's been willing to delete the [Template:Paris Metropolitan Area] for a very long time, and will probably feel encouraged to do so now after your title change. Here you can read his "condemnation" of the metro area template: [2]. So I can only feel disgusted by your giving in to pressure and opening the Pandora box. Hardouin 09:34, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
By the way, so you know this goes really far, another way for him to deny the existence of French metropolitan areas is to argue that what INSEE (the French statistical office) calls "aire urbaine" cannot exactly be translated as "metropolitan area" in English, because the INSEE definition of an "aire urbaine" is not exactly the same as the American definition of a "metropolitan area". See his recent changes at aire urbaine. In the past he has also argued that the French "unité urbaine" cannot exactly be translated as "urban area", again because definitions are not 100% the same (see unité urbaine). Using the same litteral reading logic, one could also argue that the French PIB cannot be compared with US or UK GDP because definitions of GDP in the US, the UK, and PIB in France are not 100% the same. And since we're at it, one could also argue that census figures in France cannot exactly be compared with census figures in the US or the UK, since US, UK, and French censuses don't count people exactly 100% the same. He also deleted all the large french cities infoboxes that I had created (they took many hours of work!) and replaced them with infoboxes of his own because apparently my infoboxes made metro area information too prominent (here is an example of my infoboxes: [3]). Now, in his infoboxes (check Paris), the metro area is only given two lines, at the very bottom of the infobox, trying to hide it as much as possible. See how deep goes the iceberg beneath the water? Hardouin 09:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
If you feel strongly about this, mediation is not going to solve it, because there is no middle ground on a yes/no question like this (actually, I think "of Paris" would do, but there was little support for that), and, as a content dispute, ArbCom are not going to be interested. I think that means that the only option is an RFC. I entirely accept your position - Paris as a city is obviously larger than the small City of Paris - but I am afraid I have plenty of other more interesting things to be doing than fighting zealots on this kind of question. Sorry. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:53, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
If you have plenty of more interesting things to do, then why did you change the title of the article in the first place? Nobody asked you to do that. Hardouin 11:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I am not going to fight with you. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dürer's Cuddly Rhino Award

Cuddly rhino bearing floral tribute.
Cuddly rhino bearing floral tribute.

For your outstanding work in the field of German woodcuts, this unique handcrafted 16th-century rhinoceros brings you a floral tribute from the National Rhinoplasty Association. Bishonen | talk 01:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC).

Wow. I am speechless. Thank you very much.
You may have seen that I made a few further minor improvements to the article. I'm sure there must be some excellent Portuguese, Italian and German sources out there somewhere, and I must find copies of David Quammen's The Boilerplate Rhino: Nature in the Eye of the Beholder and Glynis Ridley's Clara's Grand Tour: Travels with a Rhinoceros in Eighteenth-century Europe. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:20, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Parliament Act

I saw you've started work on this in FAR. Do you need any assistance? I don't want to steam in there and start citing if you have it hand (especially as there seems to be a dearth of books on parliamentary history in my library), and I know it can be a lot easier to work on this stuff alone, but if you need any help just drop me a note. (I had started on Turquoise but tracking down sources is wearing me out). Cheers, Yomanganitalk 17:04, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Gosh, yes - any assistance is gratefully received. I need to look out Erskine May and some articles in legal journals. I think some of the details are taken from the cases, others from the materials already listed, from the Parliament website, etc., so it should be easy to add specific footnotes for these. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, I'll start trawling the web and blowing dust off anything I think might contain a few words on the subject. Feel free to push my citations aside if you uncover better quality references - I won't be precious about it. Yomanganitalk 17:16, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Campaign for less bull, more cow

Elm Farm Ollie. Historic beast par exelance, I am sure you will agree. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 05:29, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Holy flying cow, batman! Well done. So, where is the first flying chicken, sheep, donkey, horse...? Category:Famous flying animals? -- ALoan (Talk) 08:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 7 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ian Lloyd (UK politician), which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] The trouble with contribbies

I was following your contributions, saw the Lar mess, and got a little miffed at what looked like a big logic hole from kingboyk. The fact that he would say that my presence on Bishonen's talk page proved...something...didn't bother me. I figure that those people who could be magnetized by the current RFAR would treat me like a pole for a while (or a shaft or something), but the thing about "I see no contributions from Bishonen" prompted me to stick my foot in. It's a sad discussion there, IMO. Obviously, I agree with you and Bishonen, and I'm saddened by Lar going from miffed to militant about a personal disagreement, but, if you see my comment there, I wanted to let you know that I'm not going to follow up. Geogre 18:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your advice

I hope you are also advising Geogre and Giano not to make inflammatory comments. Not to mention Ghirlandajo. (watchlisted you) --Ideogram 10:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My Bot

As per WP:SUBST the {{nobr}} is being subsuted Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't see a {{nobr}} in that diff. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I apoligize that edit was a error I have no clue why that edit was made. I thougt you were talking About {{Nobr}} when you left your first message Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 19:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry - my fault for adding a comment under a misleading heading; but the issue was much the same as the previous comment: what is the bot doing, and why? If you don't know why the bot was making an edit, perhaps you should not be running it in the first place? -- ALoan (Talk) 09:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I have made the same inquiry at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Betacommand, FYI. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Lost episodes FLC

I'd like to know your thoughts on how to handle the closure of this nomination. I'm inclined to promote right away, but maybe we could wait until Thursday (after the next episode's airing) to see if the stability concerns raised by MIB hold water. Regards, -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 08:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Rather oddly, the list already has summaries for the first 4 episodes of the current series (season 3) but only the first has aired yet. I don't think weekly updating counts as "unstable" - that is really trying to catch lists that change on a daily or hourly basis (for example, an Olympics medals table during the Olympics). Once per week is not that too stable, in my book. However, I would be inclined to wait until, say, Friday to see how it pans out after the second episode.
Images are a problem here. I would leave them out, and I think that absence of images is not really a valid objection (but having the wrong sort of images would be).
I am also a little worried by the standard of references - see recent debates on WT:FAC (I think) on "reliable sources". This list cites ABC nine times, Amazon (!) three times (surely they mean the DVD, not Amazon's blurb?), and then some other websites. Surely some "independent" sources exist? -- ALoan (Talk) 10:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. I have extended the nomination until Friday and also made a comment on the issue of the references used in the list. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 12:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:Seacole - Challen.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Seacole - Challen.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Arniep 22:34, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what you are asking. The image page says:
Portrait of Mary Seacole (1805-1881), c.1869, by otherwise unknown London artist Albert Charles Challen (1847-1881). Original held by the National Portrait Gallery in London.
It is a scan (by me) of a print (in a book) of a portrait (by an artist who died 125 years ago). What more is required? -- ALoan (Talk) 09:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, you need to say that it is a scan of a photo of the painting in a book, and the give the book's name and publishing details etc. (also the photographer if it's mentioned). Whether it is public domain is questionable. Regards Arniep 11:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I still don't understand.
  • I thought we took the view that there could be no copyright in a photograph of a two-dimensional artwork which was intended to be as close as possible to the original, separate from the copyright in the original artwork, following Bridgeman v Corel. (Although I am sure the position is not the same in some jurisdictions outside the US.)
  • The original artist died over 70 years ago, so I added a {{PD-old-70}} tag. Perhaps I should replace it with {{PD-art}}.
  • I have already added a source: the original is a painting in the National Portrait Gallery
If I am wrong, are any of our images of old artworks free of copyright? I doubt whether Wikipedians have been scouring the museums of the world, taking photographs of the paintings, so they must have come from somewhere, and someone must have created them. Are they all to be deleted?
This why I never bother to load images. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
  • If the above is correct, then half of Wikipedia is in deep trouble, as cameras are forbidden in most art galleries and museums; and last time I asked the Galleria degli Uffizi were not very helpful when I asked if I could borrow a painting to take home and scan. Something is wrong here. Giano 14:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

ALoan: Simply replace the "no source" tag with a statement saying that you scanned the image from a book, say which book, and which page. Ignore Arniep's statement "Whether it is public domain is questionable" -- it is certainly PD, no worries. Even though it is public domain, and the "original" source is the painting in the NPG, we still like to know what the immediate source is for the particular image in question -- hence wanting to know you scanned it, and from where. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Why? Pace debate over Bridgeman v Corel, the copyright status is obvious. The painting is hanging in the gallery (although it might be out on loan at the moment); it is on their website. Who cares which book I scanned? It is not relevant to the question.
This is the sort of bull and busywork I can do without. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:40, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
This isn't really a copyright question, but rather a matter of giving fair credit to the chain of people who have made the image available. Imagine someone else now making use of the free content you have now provided to the world in online form. Isn't it reasonable that they would like to know the provenance of the work? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
It is a painting in the NPG! What more provenance do you need? I mean, it is not as if I have drawn a curly moustache on it. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
This is not a pipe. It is a scan of a reproduction of a pipe. Even though the various reproductions are all protected under copyright by Bridgeman v Corel, it is still the case that the actual bitmap, the pixels, the colors, differ between different scans and reproductions. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but what has the source got to do with the copyright in this case? That rather annoying template at the top of this section says that the copyright status of this image is unclear because I have not specified who created the content, but its copyright status only depends on me telling you that I made a scan from a book plate, and which book it comes from, if you refuse to that accept that slavish reproductions are denied copyright protection as a result of Bridgeman v Corel. The original painting is clearly PD; the intermediate source is only relevant if Bridgeman v Corel does not make the photograph (and this scan) PD, like the painting. Anyway, I have now added {{PD-art}}, which makes the usual assertion the original and copies are PD on the basis of Bridgeman v Corel (not in the UK most likely, but they can sue me). The original creator of the painting (Challen) is already stated, and that is the important thing, in terms of attribution and PD (at least, until someone tells me that we have to take our own photos of artworks because Bridgeman v Corel does not work). Who cares about pixels and colours? They change, depending on whether you display it at 50px or 100px or full size anyway.

Now, if someone wants to be really helpful, they could remove the scan's slight lean to the left - I tried my best to to get it straight on my scanner: you should see the other ones!

Shooting myself in the foot, perhaps, but do you think Image:Seacole simpson sketch.png, Image:Seacole photo.jpg and Image:Blackwood Seacole sketch.png have the same "problems"? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

What I would like to know is what is the situation if you, if you find the ancient painting in a book of website that claims it is copyright to them - I've never seen a book or website that does not make this claim - so does one still list the source, or does "PD-art" ,mean one does not have to give the source - I thougth I understood all this, now I'm confused. Giano 16:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
One lists PD-art *and* links or states where you got the image from, resting assured that Bridgeman vs. Corel makes their claim of copyright null and void. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I think BG is saying that someone (who?) has imposed a requirement (where?) to specify the immediate source of the image (the book, website, etc, from where the particular jpg or gif or whatever was copied), not because of the copyright issue, but to verify where the particular image comes from (why?). It seems to be dressed up as an issue of provenance or verifiability ("yes, this really is the Mona Lisa", or "it is this image of the Mona Lisa, which is not necessarily exactly the same as that image of the Mona Lisa"). It does not make any sense to me.
Anyway, I will refrain from adding any images from now on, unless they are photos or drawings that I have created personally. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I look forward to reading the article on ALoan's Rhinoceros. up+land 18:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
For example, Image:Mona Lisa.jpg is not exactly the same as any of the images available if you follow the link to the cited "source" at the Louvre website. Shall we delete it? -- ALoan (Talk) 17:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, we have a lot of problems with images and sources; no, they aren't really big deals in clear PD-old cases. I have gone ahead and removed the unsourced tag from your image and mentioned that you scanned it from a book; that should suffice. Please don't stop uploading images over this... it's not a big deal. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Unarchived in the Louvre's secret sub-basement
Unarchived in the Louvre's secret sub-basement

It is a big deal when people paste large templates on your talk page accusing you of uploading illegal material and requiring you to do something on pain of your contributions being deleted, particularly if the thing is not necessary, and then going on to insinuate that your other contributions may be illegal and could be deleted too unless you go through them with a fine tooth comb.

I am rather annoyed about this. Imagine how I would feel if I was a new editor. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I shall begin to copy world famous paintings myself so that the originals can be deleted, my own interpretation of the Mona Lisa will be a marvel in itself, I shall ask Bishonen to pose for me with her famous enigmatic grin! Giano 17:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
The paint is still wet on that particular one of my works BoG - so I will sue! I am currently working on this rather attractive work [4] "Entitled Bishonen, Geogre, Bog and ALoan on holiday" Giano 18:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Now stop it, you are in enough trouble with the ArbCom already without resorting to legal threats. Newyorkbrad 21:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Gosh - I am not sure which of those I am meant to be... -- ALoan (Talk) 08:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, not the agitated one leaping out of the water - I hope! Giano 09:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Indeed: I had assumed that was Bish; but one wonders what the chap behind her is doing... -- ALoan (Talk) 09:54, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
looking for his snorkel Giano 10:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm with you, ALoan. I don't think this is busywork as much as "I made a template, and now the template is in charge." Templates that are aimed at vandals and kiddies are getting thrown around robotically, if not actually by a bot, and this unreading judgment takes precedence over what is clearly stated. Someone somewhere wants the print source. Great! I want recognition for my true value to society. However, the world is unlikely to oblige, and I do not get to delete it. This is the rage of civil servants again. Geogre 02:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Do you think you could tell me what book you took the image from so credit can be given to the people who took the time and money taking the picture, processing it, and then publishing it so you could scan it? Arniep 14:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, credit is rather a different issue to copyright, now, isn't it. I suppose I could, but the image is public domain, so what difference does it make? -- ALoan (Talk) 15:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
And why have you reverted my addition of a link to the relevant page at the NPG website, and change of the PD template from {{PD-old-70}} to {{PD-art}}? It also seems a bit churlish to remove Bunchofgrapes' addition of the edifying details of its provenence on my scanner (not that I see a need for it). -- ALoan (Talk) 15:58, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Let me join the voices who find this needless copyright paranoia of certain users annoying and disruptive. If the image is clearly PD who cares about the particular place where it comes from. I, and even more so Ghirla, uploaded hundreds of images of the old art that I found at some web-sites. I pasted the link originally. Some of the web-sites are now dead and the links to "source" are useless. By the logic of our copyright policemen those 18th century paintings now have to be deleted. I wish those who don't want to write articles found themselves a more productive activity at Wikipedia than stripping the articles from clearly harmless images which are anything but the threat to the foundation. --Irpen 17:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 11 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cockpit-in-Court, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Peta 23:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On 12 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Holophusikon, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Konst.able 06:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On 12 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Reg Freeson, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Peta 22:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What..?

I'm very sorry I didn't check what? Bishonen | talk 00:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC).

I'm sure you would have checked WP:ANI if the thought had crossed your mind - wouldn't you? -- ALoan (Talk) 00:59, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh, that. Yes, I would. I was focused on posting on Doc's page as quickly as possible. Bishonen | talk 01:07, 13 October 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Too late the pong

Oh, well, missed. I got there, but you turned orange while I typed. Geogre 01:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Pong. -- ALoan (Talk) 02:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of temples....

I think we have worked out the formatting issues, and the use of templates has made the article much easier to maintain for those that have the information but don't know wikitable complexities :). Would you suggest I "reopen" if there is such a thing the original nomination or relist as a second nomination. thx --Trödel 21:49, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it is probably cleaner to treat the first nomination as withdrawn, and list a second nomination, if that is alright with you? -- ALoan (Talk) 22:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Yep, I'll do it tomorrow after I finish my signpost article. --Trödel 10:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
It seems the dormant formatting issue has become active again - I'm trying to encourage a movement towards concensus - since a valuable contributor objects to the new format. So I'll be holding off some more - thx for the advice --Trödel 02:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Lost episodes - featured list candidacy

Hello, I believe User:Rune.welsh noted that the List of Lost episodes featured list candidacy was to be closed two days ago (on the 13th). I'm just wondering what the status on it is. Just to clarify there are 12 Supports (including 4 Strong Supports) and 4 Opposes. Wondering where this goes now. I've also left this message on Rune.welsh's talk page. Thanks. -- Wikipedical 03:31, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Re Roland Boyes

I assumed he died from Alzheimer's Disease given the way the last paragraph (Alzheimer's Research Trust) is written. One has to die from something and that was the only malady indicated. If you feel it is appropriate, please feel free to remove the category (Deaths from Alzheimer's Disease). HOT L Baltimore 08:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did You Know...?

Updated DYK query On 15 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article František Fajtl, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.
Updated DYK query Did you know? was updated. On 15 October 2006, a fact from the article František Fajtl, which you recently nominated, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

As this is my first DYK update, I shall give you two tags. Congratulations! ;-) SoLando (Talk) 14:08, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, thanks, but, as it happens, this is one that I did not create - that was User:Ioannes Pragensis on 4 October, I just expanded it. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Indeed - I've just remembered! But regardless, it's the principle of the matter - you expanded the article beyond recognition. So I duly sought to recognise that. ;-) Happy editing. SoLando (Talk) 00:05, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Less bull, more copyediting

Hello, ALoan. I was wondering if you could have a look at 1933 Atlantic hurricane season? WikiProject Tropical cyclones has been working on it for a while, and it has stalled on FAC, mostly because it needs an outside eye to give it a copyedit. I've given it progressive passes, but it seems some editors still find issues. Would it be too much of a hassle for you to review it? Titoxd(?!?) 20:48, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I have been meaning to read star and redshift, both of which managed to pass FAC while I was looking the other way. Tell you what: I'll swap you - would you like to read Mary Seacole? -- ALoan (Talk) 23:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bamse

Sure, I don't mind into which pahe though. It's your choice. GiantSnowman.

[edit] Cricket quiz

Its your turn.

It's still your turn. Nearly two days now. --Dweller 10:55, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

I can't remember the exact date of updating, but delivery...

Updated DYK query On October 18, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Don Thompson (athlete), which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.
Updated DYK query On October 17, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Birdcage Walk, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.
Updated DYK query On October 16, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article John Gonson, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

And thanks for filling in the gap. Someone should give you a second medal.... Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 01:31, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks :) I noticed that DYK updating had been getting a bit, um, slow over the last few days so thought I would try my hand. First time, believe it or not, and I am not aware of any significant problems. -- ALoan (Talk) 08:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Medici giraffe

After checking "What links here", I discovered that I seem to have filled one of your redlinks. Info is pretty thin on the ground though. I have The Medici Giraffe on order, which judging from the title should fill a lot of gaps, but I wondered if there was any mention in the The Pope's Rhinoceros which I believe you used in the rhinoceros article. Cheers, Yomanganitalk 14:29, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh! I was saving that one as light relief for a rainy day :( Never mind.
Yes, information is indeed thin on the ground. The book by Marina Belozerskaya should help (I have not read it). Here is a link to discussion of the Bacchiacca painting. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:33, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry - I promise not to touch Thinking man's crumpet (however tempting). Yomanganitalk 15:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh, no matter - I was hoping that people would pick some of the hard currants, not just the juicy plums. Unfortunately I have not found anything very helpful on a quick peruse of The Pope's Rhinoceros. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Could use your insight on a merge

ALoan- Pairie and Peerage of France are roughly the same article. I put up a request for merge in September and finally got around to merging, keeping Peerage of France and putting a redirect on Pairie, but the merge has been reverted by one user. I could use your insight (if you get a chance) on the Peerage of France talk page. (It seems to me that if "pairie" is to be preserved, it would only be as a disambig for other non-French peerages that use the term). Thanks. -- NYArtsnWords 03:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Thanks for the award; am I replyng in the right place? I'm still very new at this. As for the Main Talk page; I'm not big on attracting attention to myself, especially at this early date; but do whatever you think is appropriate.Ugajin 10:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 21 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Robert Megarry, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Srikeit (Talk | Email) 18:57, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ...and more

Updated DYK query Did you know? was updated. On 22 October 2006, a fact from the article Martin Flannery, which you recently nominated, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.
Updated DYK query On 22 October 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bamse the St Bernard, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Srikeit (Talk | Email) 10:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On October 23, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Naval Brigade, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Hi ALoan. I think we should tighten up the requirements for DYK to get more meaty articles on display. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 02:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

How do you mean "meaty"? What kind of articles would you disqualify? -- ALoan (Talk) 09:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Ah, I think Naval Brigade is cutting it rather thin...I was thinking somewhere along the lines of Mahinda or Moggaliputta-Tissa as what I would like to see as I outlined on WT:DYK. I think we still need people to update in the 12-20 UTC shift as well....Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I quite liked Naval Brigade. It is not as easy to write about at a biography with three or four different obituaries. Now, thinking man's crumpet is thin :)
I find that updating takes about 30 to 40 mins. I am often active at some point in those hours - I will update if I have time, but I can't promise. -- ALoan (Talk) 00:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Updated DYK query On October 25, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ralph Harris, Baron Harris of High Cross, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Invitation

Dear ALoan, I have written a new article - flypast. You'll see that it's taken several weeks. I hope you will visit it and that you like it. If you can pretty it up in any way or add any images to it, feel free to do so. Thanks, and best wishes to you. -- FClef (talk) 01:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

May I be boring and ask about the name - are you sure it should be flypast, rather than fly past or fly-past? And would you like a thinking man's crumpet (bit like a barnstar, but tastier) while you are here? -- ALoan (Talk) 19:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Ha!! Carol Vorderman gets my vote. IQ 167 and fit for her age. Hasselhoff and Clooney both said they'sd love to shag her!! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

As one who spent his formative early twenties in the forces (Italian army in fact!) witnessing these events are you sure it should not be something more on the lines of "Air salute". "Air Review" Giano 21:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Giano, what a hero. The article salute has a section on "aerial salute", mainly to do with dipping wings, etc.; I have added a sentence or 2 and crossref about flypast to that article. Anhow, the parade of aircraft that my article deals with is almost universally referred to as flypast, whether in martial or ceremonial contexts (and also in airshow). In the US it is called flover, but almost everywhere else, it's flypast. I've been very careful about this in the introduction and in crossreferencing. I have actually said it's a type of aerial salute in the introduction and I've cross-referred it in the salute article as well. -- FClef (talk) 22:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Replying to ALoan

Huh? Are you saying that I am a thinking man's crumpet? <blush> if so, thanks . It's definitely flypast. I've consulted a million sites including dictionaries, newspaper and TV reports, aerospace blogs...you name it... they all give it as one unhyphenated word only. Incidentally, re the Lord Mayor's Show on 11 Nov. this year, you might find the first couple of paragraphs here interesting. -- FClef (talk) 21:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 99.94

Am I insane? --Dweller 18:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I would not say "insane". "Keen", perhaps :)
Personally, I am not convinced that Bradman's batting average deserves its own article, and the AFD is not that surprising. Yes, it was an outstanding achievement - perhaps the most outstanding sporting achievement of all time - but it can be dealt with at Donald Bradman or a daughter article (Donald Bradman's Test cricket career or similar). -- ALoan (Talk) 19:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Heck, we're all keen. That's why we waste our time on this amazing project, without getting paid. I've taken up your advice, with a namecheck. Thanks. --Dweller 19:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PDSA

I should have guessed that was on your list after I saw that you'd created Bamse (St. Bernard) - unfortunately I'd already written the whole article when I came to check the links. I'll try and check your list before starting next time. (As you can see, I haven't yet been able to work up much enthusiasm for the Trade Union and Labour Relations Act 1974 either). Cheers, Yomanganitalk 13:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] extreme language on my talk page

Yes, I was perplexed when I got to The Fire of London, having been primed for "stinking" prose. Perhaps there's a hidden agenda here. Tony 14:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn,t worry about it - no one other seems to agree. Giano 14:56, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Stinking" FACs

Please see my explanation here. Gzkn 02:30, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Another ....ing FAC

ALoan, would you be please extremely kind and give this one of your famed light copy edits, as I think it is almost ready for FAC - what do you think any suggestions? Giano 18:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

How about it we swap - I'll warm up the feather duster and chamois leather for WWP, and you can take a trowel and chisel to Mary Seacole. I have found out that you can research one topic too much. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
OK Deal! but you won't likka de inglise, she looka lika beeeyootifulla lady, actually she's bloody ugly.........but OK.........deal's on.Giano 20:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Come on, now, don't pretend you can't write. But anyway, I am really more concerned about general form and content that the precise words - the article has become rather too sprawling and bloated, but I am too close to wield the scalpel. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm just making some small vocab changes ie using one word instead if two etc, you can revert if you want - there sdoes seem though to be quite a few sentences that don't follow through with relevant facts begging the "so what?" and "and?" comment. it is interesting though, just need tightening up. Thanks for the West Wycombe job that is great, I'm not sure about FACing it though now, I don't think I care for the current pedantics and quibbling that seems to on FAC at the moment, I'm not sure I want to be bothered with it, also I may have to go away for a few days at end of next week, so would not be arownd to address the quibbles, allthough that may not be a bad thing!!!Giano 13:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks - it was more that "so what?" that needs dealing with. I have deliberately been ignoring it for a week or two so I get a better perspective.
WW is great. Just FAC it - it will pass easily enough. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello ALoan. I realise that you are busy, but Tony has asked me to look for copyeditors and ask them nicely for a fresh set of eyes on Ian Thorpe which is at FAC (perhaps its the 100+ hours I spent on it which is stopping me from analysing it in a detached manner). Since he suggested that sports experts may be interested, I was wondering if you could take a look. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi - I have been trying to catch up in idle moments. I saw it on FAC (it is pretty good, I have to say) and wanted to review but I already have Bodyline to look at (see below), and some obits I want to write up first (Geoff Griffin, and I have neglected Walter Hadlee for a long time). I will see what I can do, but I can't promise. He is yet young - I am sure there will be more to say. -- ALoan (Talk) 00:42, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
You know that he has retired from swimming and he isn't interested in sport as an admin or a coach.....so that only leaves the issue of adding a relevant sentence when necessary for becoming a TV host or advertising person or UN ambassador or something....I'm still up for getting come FAs relevant to the upcoming Cricket World Cup. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two questions

Hi ALoan, I wanted to ask you two things. One is do you mind if I add more to Château de Bellevue? Mostly the == Architecture extérieure et jardins == section from fr: and fr:Utilisateur:Justelipse's bibliography. Also, do I get one of those "Did you know? was updated with a fact" templates for Château de Menars? Regards, DVD+ R/W 18:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to expand Château de Bellevue - I'm sure it needs it.
The DYK templates seem to be falling by the wayside, somewhat, but yes, you are entitled to one if you want one. Feel free to add it yourself. -- ALoan (Talk)
I wouldn't want one if I were you, last time I received one people were very rude about both Lady Sybil and myself - no pleasing some people! Giano 19:23, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Thanks for posting the DYK note on the Talk:Rasik Krishna Mallick page. I would love to see it on my talk page, User talk:P.K.Niyogi, also. Please put it in. -- P.K.Niyogi 02:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK tips

Thanks for the congratulations! Yep, my first DYK update was a bit sketchy, the two under 28 October kind of blended together with the "not used", and I didn't think of checking the articles themselves for free images at the time (User:Yomangani hadn't submitted the image alongside the nom), so it was just a case of not looking close enough. At least I didn't do anything really silly, like leave the image unprotected. I'll be around at 23:00, so if noone's updated by then I'll make sure the two get in in the nick of time. Hopefully I'll get a little better at this with practice :) GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 17:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yep, they're very helpful. Just a case of jitters at using the tools for the first time. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 18:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Alrighty, I'll make sure to add the link in the archives in the future. As to the other, I guess it's a settings issue. Adding in a sixth item at my text size and resolution (1280x1080) makes the two sides unbalanced. As it is, they match up perfectly. Difficult to get it right for everyone, I guess. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 15:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Belated thanks for DYK!

Thanks for the DYK on Charles S. Lawrence. I apologize for this being late, but I greatly appreciated it! Chris 14:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know

Updated DYK query On 3 November 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Institute of Advanced Legal Studies, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 15:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Château de Bellevue

Hi ALoan, I just realized that when you translated this you also condensed and rearranged it. I then got confused. I think you did a fine job and am not sure that I can improve it now, so I'll just bring over Justelipse's biblio and work on other things. Regards, DVD+ R/W 22:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem - thanks for looking at it. There are lots of other notable châteaux that have no article on :en - Château de Challeau and Château de Saint-Hubert, for example. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did You Know?

Updated DYK query On 4 November 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article William Dodd (clergyman), which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 18:03, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On 5 November 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article William Franklyn, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Allen3 talk 00:10, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On November 8, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Peter Lely, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Keep'em rolling on. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On November 10, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Marie Louise Élisabeth, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

ALoan, just wondering if you could do me the favour of looking at Ian Thorpe over the weekend - I was hoping to get it to FAC soon. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edit conflict at Template:Did you know

It appears that we both had the idea of performing an update at the same time and I did not notice your update notice on the template until after hitting the save button. The template and talk page are currently synced, but I will hold off on posting talk page notifications for a little while in case there are any changes you wish to make. --Allen3 talk 15:45, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem - only two of our picks were of the same article, so have incorporated the few changes that I made to the nominated text. I have saved the text for the other four to be used on the next update. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good. I will start the talk page updates for the articles currently listed on the template. --Allen3 talk 15:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brian Brolly

Not to worry. I've taken your text and edited that instead - hopefully not detracting from its worth. Cheers, Sliggy 17:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 11 November 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Princess Louise-Marie of France, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Allen3 talk 12:19, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French royalty templates

They probably shouldn't appear on any page except that of persons who were French monarchs. It's silly for the younger son of a King of France, perhaps a dynast in his own right, to have a big infobox topped with the undifferenced arms of France. That still dodges the question of whether it's sensible to have a navigation/infobox for a dynasty, rather than for French monarchs, but it's a start. Choess 22:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the current templates have ended up getting rather large, swamping the shorter articles to which they are added. Perhaps making a few smaller templates would be better. I think it makes sense to have a navigational box for Kings of France - at least within a sizeable dynasty, as succession boxes should deal with simple "before and after" in any event - and probably also one for a monarch's children - particularly where, like Louis XV, there are ten of them - but I am not sure that it makes sense to combine the two. What are the chances that a reader will want or need to navigate to a random great grandson, or great uncle? -- ALoan (Talk) 22:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

How did that November 9 article on Brian Brolly become stale? If it was expanded, it should have been included somewhere within the last 24 hours. Can I assume, updates aren't happening at the rate they should be (again... sigh)? - Mgm|(talk) 11:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I only nominated it at the last minute yesterday, hoping it would get into the next update before it became too old. I did an update myself, so didn't select my own article, and then it missed the final choice before it became more than 5 days old.
To explain, I often expand biographical articles using obituaries as sources, and I nominate them at DYK if I think it is worth it, but I usually exclude the ones that have only one reference (it is surprising how often obituaries disagree on details, so I try not to rely on one obit, but to corroborate where possible with a second). Fortunately, several obits of interesting people will often appear in the few days after death, so I can nominate within 5 days of the inital expansion; unfortunately, sometimes obits don't appear until days or weeks later, by which time the article is too old for DYK. C'est la vie. <galic shrug> -- ALoan (Talk) 11:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  • And I wondered why you didn't answer me... You might want to put a note on top to inform people you will answer here. - Mgm|(talk) 09:15, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ping

Mail! Giano 21:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Piff paff poff. -- ALoan (Talk) 21:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bodyline

Do you have time to work on this ? If you are free, can you please add {{cn}}s in User:Tintin1107/Bodyline where you think appropriate. I'll look at finding references for them. Tintin (talk) 13:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I am not likely to have much time, I am afraid, but it has been added to the list. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Okay. Tintin (talk) 13:51, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Username

The mediawiki software was changed to no longer allow usernames with "@" in them, so I did a namechange. See 2nd last item under WP:UN#Inappropriate usernames. Cheers. — Moondyne 01:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Saskatchewan general elections

List of Saskatchewan general elections is currently up for nomination for Featured List status. As you commented last time on its (unsuccessful) attempt, I was wondering if you would like to have another look, and see if it merits promotion.

Tompw 11:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Cricket

hi Aloan, nice to see you around too. Maybe I'll have a glance at in in mid-December. The page has deteriorated quite a bit. We need to update it with svg diagrams, more interwiki links, and tighten the prose a bit more. And then the issue of references. I have very little idea on sources for the history of cricket. Any thoughts? =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:25, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Narnian timeline -- FLC

Hi ALoan, thanks for the encouraging words on the now failed candidacy page for making Narnian timeline into a FL. As for images, I don't think there are any fair use ones out there that are slightly relevant. (The Commons has only three, and none are that good anyway.) Still, I don't think that should detract from making it featured, no? Still, you said I should "try again" in nominating it. Should I say anything special in the renomination? It seems to me it would look like I'm just trying to go through the whole process again without any major changes. The thing is that there was no consensus reached after 10 days because only one person had commented on it -- that seems like a strange reason to fail a nomination. I look forward to your response. Thanks, Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 21:34, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blofly

Nice edit summary ! I thought Blowers is dead. Tintin (talk) 11:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Not yet! He was just tardy - Roope is "late" though. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] So what to do with that?

Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates/Virtuti Militari? Shall we do a proper FAR or delete this page?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  22:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess we ought to copy the comment to the aritle's talk page and delete this subpage. A FAR is not necessary (it would be speedily closed, I suspect). -- ALoan (Talk) 23:36, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FLC?

Hey ALoan: you mentioned somewhere that 2006 ICC Champions Trophy squads was featured list material. What d'you think have to be done to it in order to pass muster? Sam Vimes | Address me 23:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi - not a lot, to be honest. You could try nominating it and seeing what comments it gets. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] wikitable sortable

I can't find documentation on this class - and it isn't in the MediaWiki:common.css or the MediaWiki:monobook.css pages. Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Thx 22:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC) PS - I renominated the temple list finally

It was mentioned in BRION in the WP:POST in the last week or two... <searches> ah - here -- ALoan (Talk) 22:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Thx - --Trödel 03:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know?

Updated DYK query On 2 December 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Graham Roope, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 17:17, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know?

Updated DYK query On 3 December 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Geoff Griffin, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 14:39, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On December 8, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Battle of Dürenstein, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Hello again ALoan. Thanks again for your many contributions. In case you were wondering about updating DYK, User:Doc Tropics has volunteered to do the DYK "clerking" (talk page spamming) should you want assistance in that regard. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your input is requested

Your input would be appreciated at this Request for Comments. Kelly Martin (talk) 17:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serial Experiments Lain

Hi ALoan. Seing the template, I guess you are busy. I was going to ask if you could copyedit Serial Experiments Lain as it's what's needed to get it through FAC... But instead, maybe you know a few good copyeditors that do have some spare time, and no aversion to anime? Thanks in advance, --SidiLemine 13:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I have not managed to get to the ones already in the queue ahead of you. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Gosh :). Too bad. Thanks for trying anyway.--SidiLemine 15:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Thank you for your message. I'm not particularly annoyed by the decision to defeature past articles that fail to meet current standards; in fact, it seems to be a positive thing that standards are improving.

I'm afraid that my college workload is too great to permit me to be as regular an editor as I would have liked. As the semester is coming to an end, I should be able to return briefly for a month or so, but after that I shall once again have to take a vacation. Thanks for your concern. -- Emsworth 15:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Thanks for the publishers on the Sydney Riot: more, thanks for generally digging in to help all the time ! Sandy (Talk) 16:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know?

Updated DYK query On 8 December 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Operation Tidal Wave, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 16:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geogre's ArbCom nomination

I have just replied to your comment on my Talk page but I feel the need to add that you are one of the editors that I particularly admire and whose manner is, in my experience, unfailingly courteous and constructive. —Theo (Talk) 19:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] But alas not always prepered to gived credit where it is due:-)

[5] Thch! Tch! Tch! Giano 10:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Alas, we must not forget to give credit to those who own the physical instantiations of public-domain artworks. I have attempted to make amends at User talk:Helenrappaport. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Very nice ALoan, very well mannered - just what one would expect from such a well brought up young man. Giano 13:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rhodesia & Zimbabwe cricket

Thanks for expanding the article as I only had a brief piece of info to hand. It's much better now. All the best. --BlackJack | talk page 20:25, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] long articles

The discontent you mention is also felt by at least one of those in the project, who support the goals & not some of the methods.DGG 00:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User talk: SandyGeorgia

Great idea. Want to sign it? pschemp | talk 11:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. As long as I don't have to implement it :) -- ALoan (Talk) 11:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Well that's the whole argument sadly. I don't know how to set up a template, and in fact have never made one in my life. I suspect this is how good ideas get ignored :( pschemp | talk 11:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Heh. There are template wizards out there - if the proposed template is supported by those who will actually have to use it, we will just need to bring it to the attention of someone who can implement it. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
If it gets the thumbs up I can build the template (just poke me if you want me to do it and I'm not watching). Yomanganitalk 12:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't it make more sense to make it and show everyone how cool it is so they will want to use it? pschemp | talk 12:55, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cquote techicalities

Since the vote is closed, some discussion on improving the code is continuing at template talk:cquote. —Michael Z. 2006-12-13 20:36 Z

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 16 December 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Peter Gadsden, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Yomanganitalk 01:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On December 18, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kenneth Cummins, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks again for the English history ALoan. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On December 19, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Salvatore Cardinal Pappalardo, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Howdy ALoan. Any chance of beefing Convention of Mantua and Mark Wright up at all? I prefer a late entry to a small entry, so I can bend things a little if you expand it :) Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On December 20, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Loyola de Palacio, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Many thanks again, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On December 21, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Convention of Mantua, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.
Updated DYK query On December 20, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mark Wright (GC), which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Many thanks again ALoan. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

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