User talk:ALoan/Archive13

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edit User talk:ALoan Archives
2004	2005	2006	2007
• Archive to 19 August • Archive to 14 October • Archive to 22 November • Archive to 31 December	• Archive to 11 February • Archive to 30 May • Archive to 31 July • Archive to 30 September • Archive to 31 December	• Archive to 28 February • Archive to 30 May • Archive to 31 July • Archive to 30 September • Archive to 31 December	• Archive to 28 February • Archive to 31 March

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Contents 1 Bus Driver's Prayer 2 List of Testudines families candidacy 3 Windscale fire 4 Sarajevo FAR closure 5 Île-de-France 6 Calloo Callay 7 DYK 8 Suleiman the elephant 9 Nitpick 10 Re WP:FLC 11 Tag! They're It 12 Château de Saint-Germain-en-Laye on DYK 13 I reverted your talk page 14 UK DYK 15 DYK 16 sandbox 17 DYK 18 Soliciting your advice... 19 DYK 20 Question 21 haha 22 haha2 23 Thanks 24 Oops 25 DYK 26 Château de Saint-Cloud 27 Charles François Paul Le Normant de Tournehem 28 WP:CRIQ 29 Category deletion? Che? 30 Thanks 31 FAC 32 The Rhino 33 Wasim Raja 34 Hector Monro, Baron Monro of Langholm 35 Clyde Walcott 36 Now! 37 Tallest structures - "Paris area" 38 Dang! 39 Morose rambling 40 Bring me sunshine 41 Thanks! 42 Ref system 43 Disgruntled Wikipedians' Breakfast Club 43.1 Essay 44 Simple English 45 List of temples of the CJC of LDS 46 Deleted on purpose? 47 DYK 48 Oxford English Dictionary, singular their and they after every, any, no, etc. 49 Jack Hobbs 50 Attention of the breakfast club 51 DYK 52 Action, please? 53 The good news is 54 Another DYK medal 55 Starthanks 56 FAOL? 57 Interlingual 58 I don't think it is worth your or anyone's time 59 DYK 60 Arbcom appeal 61 DYK 62 I'm leaving for awhile 63 Janet and John 64 WP:CRIQ 65 DYK 66 Request 67 Thanks for stepping in 68 DYK 69 Many Thanks! 70 War and Peace 71 Can you say something? 72 How about we overhaul DYK completely? 73 LDS Temple featured list nomination 74 FACfailed 75 Absence of e-mail 76 John Lyttelton, 11th Viscount Cobham 77 DYK 78 Dürer's Rhinoceros 79 Rhinocéros de Dürer 80 Enrico Tellini

[edit] Bus Driver's Prayer

Hi, ALoan. I would be grateful if you would take a look at this, which may be a blast from the past! anything you can add to this to make it a richer article? Do you know the provenance of this parody? any other categories that it fits into? Thanks. Please reply to Talk:Bus Driver's Prayer. -- FClef (talk) 21:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I vaguely remember the Ian Dury version, but have nothing else to add. Sorry. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Testudines families candidacy

Hi Aloan,

Would you be able to vote on this now? I have addressed all your concerns, and currently, it will fail due to lack of votes. Thanks --liquidGhoul 09:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Windscale fire

I'm probably breaking a load of guidelines and rules.. no idea how it really works.. this is overwhelming! Hi, my name's Major Tom and I wrote a few bits and pieces on the Windscale fire and a couple of other articles about nuclear physics. Great site. I am now going to write four tildes and see what happens... Maj0r Tom 10:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

(also copied to your talk page)

Hey, thanks for the message (I have read your livejournal btw :)

Don't worry too much about breaking rules - two of our cardinal principles (although much abused) are to Be bold and Ignore all rules. It would be worth following some of the links in the welcome message, though, just so you aren't surprised at others' reactions to your contributions (particularly the Wikipedia:Five pillars, which links to WP:NOT, WP:NPOV, WP:EQ, and WP:V). Happy editing. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey thanks. Will do my best to keep the Wiki end up ;) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Maj0r Tom (talk • contribs) 13:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC).

Cheer - try to remember to add the four tildes at the end of your posts to talk pages, to add a signature! WP:SIG may help. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:18, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sarajevo FAR closure

Thank you for closing the Sarajevo FAR. Most of the people who usually close reviews were involved in the article so we couldn't close it. For future reference the FARpassed template has two additional parameters that can be added. These are the date and version of id of when the review ended. I went ahead and added those to the template at the Sarajevo talk page so it now looks like this : {{FARpassed|oldid=67201015|date=August 2, 2006}}. Take care. Joelito (talk) 14:02, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Right-ho - thanks - I had to go looking for the templates anyway. It would help to add some notes for an admin who might like to do the closing. Was I meant to add something to Wikipedia's {{FormerFA2}} as well? -- ALoan (Talk) 14:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The templates can be found at the top of the FAR talk page. And there are no optional parameters on {{FormerFA2}}. I will check where we can add some notes for closing editors. Joelito (talk) 14:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't think to look there. WP:FLC has then on the project page itself. IIRC, it goes something like:

1. Delete the transcluded discussion from WP:FAR
2. Add the transcluded discussion to the archive in the right section
3. Edit the transcluded discussion to add the "no longer" or "still a" line
4. For a passed FAR, edit the article's talk page to replace {{FAR}} with {{FARpassed}} [with optional parameters]
5. For a failed FAR, edit the article's talk page to replace {{FA}} and {{FAR}} with {{FormerFA2}}
6. For a failed FAR, delete the article from WP:FA and add to WP:FFA, remembering to increment the numbers on each.

Phew :) -- ALoan (Talk) 14:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

FAR already has a very lenghty procedural introduction. Maybe a link to a sub-page with these instructions would be a better idea. Joelito (talk) 16:13, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Feel free to cut and paste the above, and add anything that you think is needed. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Île-de-France

Reading your contributions at List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris, I thought maybe you could have a look at Talk:Île-de-France (région). The same user, User:ThePromenader, has been repeatedly deleting the following sentence from the introduction of the article: "Its territory corresponds for the most part to the metropolitan area of Paris." Despite being told by two users already (User:Metropolitan and I) that the sentence is perfectly fine and should stay in the introduction, he has repeatedly deleted the sentence for the same mindless literalism that you have already witnessed at List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris. You can find everybody's arguments on the talk page. In my experience over the last 10 months, it's almost impossible to have ThePromenader change his mind, so a third party comment would be helpful. Thanks. Hardouin 14:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Calloo Callay

Bless you for your enthusiasm! I expect to be moderately active for the next six weeks or so. But I plan to stay away from the wikipolitics. —Theo (Talk) 20:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 3 August 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Suleiman the elephant, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

I'm really enojying these famous animal articles --Peta 00:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't listen to Peta! It's all these front-page elephants that gave Colbert the idea in the first place! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:16, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I have one giraffe left, and then an article on the history of rhinos in Europe - after that, I am open to suggestions :) -- ALoan (Talk) 08:26, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suleiman the elephant

I've raised questions about the naming of this article over at Talk:Suleiman the elephant. I thought you might like to respond. --Oldak Quill 03:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nitpick

Call me anal-retentive, but aren't new suggestions posted at T:TDYK supposed to go at the bottom (ahem) of the list of articles created on that day? --4.236.30.100 02:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Are they? Surely the oldest are at the bottom? <checks instruction> Oh, they are. Well, I think the reviewing admins tend to start from the oldest at the bottom of the list and work up, so I'm not sure it really makes much difference. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re WP:FLC

Woops! Looks around to see if somebody else noticed... Should we leave it as it is or just let it slide this one time? -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 11:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tag! They're It

Ok, folks, tell me what's wrong with boxes and templates. I've begun [1] writing up my idears. Geogre 14:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Château de Saint-Germain-en-Laye on DYK

On 5 August 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Château de Saint-Germain-en-Laye, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

-- Scott e^iπ 17:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I reverted your talk page

Just leaving you a note to explain why I reverted your talk page: the text I removed was a spurious/vexatious request from User:HotHotSoup, the latest sockpuppet of User:PoolGuy, spamming the talk pages of admins (and a few non-admins), and apparently working alphabetically. Contributions of a banned user may be reverted by anyone, but if you would still like the message to be included here, feel free to revert back. Stifle (talk) 17:40, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] UK DYK

Just to let you know that your article William Lowndes has been featured on the did you know section of the United Kingdom Portal. the wub "?!" 20:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 6 August 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Château de Madrid, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

On 6 August 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Charles Angibaud, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] sandbox

Haha, thanks. I'm not too familiar with wiki formatting.Sojourner001 17:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 7 August 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article William Lowndes, Secretary of the Treasury, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] Soliciting your advice...

On Wikipedia:Featured article advice, my guidline I moved into Wikipedia space to hopefully get more exposure, improvement, and use. I'm thinking it needs re-ordering by priority and I'd be interested in what your thoughts are. Thanks - Taxman ^Talk 22:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 8 August 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Château de Bellevue, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] Question

Hi there. Would you happen to know why this page is not transcluding properly? ([2] Thanks! -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 09:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

It had no header (one was omitted when it was archived by cut and paste rather than page move). I have added one - HTH! -- ALoan (Talk) 10:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

D'oh! Thank you! I think I'll go around one day fixing old nominations myself, if I'm sufficiently bored. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 10:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] haha

Hey I no vandliasm page? where vandal? I give people gift of Uzerbaaji point --Uzerbaaji 14:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] haha2

Uzerbaaji Point very important to people. It mean admin/user can be happy because it mean their useroapage is great. On opinoion of Uzerbaaji . تبقي نقطه وزيرباجي ماتي --Uzerbaaji 14:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hi, thanks for reverting the edits to my user page. You know, I'm beginning to doubt the authenticity of this User:Uzerbaaji... his language use and comprehension just don't seem to be those of a real non-English speaker "just trying to help". I don't know, I could be wrong, it just sounds like a Borat-style prank to me. --Canley 23:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome. I suspect as much myself, but have tried to WP:AGF as far as possible. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oops

[3] Apparently subst:ing {{cite book}}, she do not work too good. Thanks for the fix, and for the completion. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 14:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

No problem - thank you for filling the redlink. Any comments on Dürer's Rhinoceros are welcome, btw. I have a book, with pages and all, in case you have not noticed :) I am getting another one on Monday, but may do Hanno in the meantime. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 12 August 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cockpit Theatre, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Nice article! Wanted to use the image for the main page, but it didn't seem to come through all that well. I expect a wave of theatre Colberrorism to follow. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 07:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks; for some reason, he seems to have ignored my chateaux... -- ALoan (Talk) 18:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Château de Saint-Cloud

On 13 August 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Château de Saint-Cloud, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for the nomination and contributions to the article. I find fr: to be a great source for many articles, even unrelated to France. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 23:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Charles François Paul Le Normant de Tournehem

On 14 August 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Charles François Paul Le Normant de Tournehem, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Nice job again. Appreciate all your contributions to DYK. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 06:59, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:CRIQ

Please can we have a question? --Dweller 11:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

You ready for Q259? --Dweller 12:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category deletion? Che?

Dear ALoan, Hope you have enjoyed your Bank Hol, but can you shed any light on this? I reproduce below a note I have written to User:wub. Please leave me a msg here if you can explain what's gone on and what, if any action I can take, or if you can help.

Re: Category:British Cultural Icons Hello, wub. I have contributed to both Buckingham Palace and Trooping the Colour. I see that on both of these you recently removed the Category:British Cultural Icons with WP:AWB, citing WP:CFD. Relatively new to Wikipedia, I confine my activities to writing and the odd merge, and was unaware of this. Can you tell me what has happened to this popular and useful category? Has it been deleted? Or has it been merged? What has happened to the many articles which were under this category?

I will watchlist this page and check back here for an answer or would be grateful to hear from you on User talk:FClef

I am copying this note to the Help Desk and to a couple of Wikifriends more experienced than I, to see if they know what the fate of this category is. Best wishes. -- FClef

Thanks, ALoan. -- FClef (talk) 20:47, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Update - No action necessary - HelpDesk has solved it - see debate at [4]. -- FClef (talk) 22:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks, ALoan, for the compliments and for drawing my attention to the DYK - Fsouza 22:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

No, thank you for the fine contributions. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FAC

Hmm. Without wanting to blow my own trumpet too much, I have a FAC... -- ALoan (Talk) 16:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

• I gave your trumpet a richly deserved toot. Others may wish to join me. -- Hoary 06:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

• Oh, thanks everyone - I am now rather embarassed by the strength of support. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Nono, you're supposed to bask in it! Bishonen | talk 10:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC).
    • Oh, all right: I will bask, if I have to. And you are supposed to be away. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Rhino

I have spotted a problem in the article's footnote numbering.. it's off in the Dürer's woodcut section. For this reason, and this reason alone, I'm witholding support. I'd change it myself if I understood that ref system -- I only know <ref></ref>. Keep up the good work, and congratulations in advance! --Zantastik talk 23:52, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh - it uses the <ref> system exclusively (at least, it did when I wrote it and last time I looked at it). Where is it broken? -- ALoan (Talk) 08:52, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I've dropped my objection, but in the Dürer's woodcut section, it reads something like [6], [12], [12] -- they're non-sequential, and this is a bit jaring, policy violation or no. --Zantastik talk 18:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wasim Raja

On 4 September 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Wasim Raja, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for the contribution, ALoan -- Samir धर्म 04:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Added some corrections at Talk:Wasim Raja. Didn't fix them myself as two of them need you to take a look. Tintin (talk) 11:00, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

No problem - mostly mea culpa. Thanks for the careful read. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hector Monro, Baron Monro of Langholm

On 4 September 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Hector Monro, Baron Monro of Langholm, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Very nice additions to the article. Enjoyed the tagline also. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 11:12, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clyde Walcott

On 4 September 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Clyde Walcott, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Another nice article. Thanks for the contribution. -- Samir धर्म 18:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Now!

You come right back here at once. This project need you, your common sense and good manners to sort it out. Giano | talk 15:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind thoughts, but I would really rather this was just was just left blank for the time being -- ALoan (Talk) 15:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tallest structures - "Paris area"

A few of us have managed to come into agreement over an "in the Paris area" title - as a former participant in the discussion, your views and vote on the matter would much be welcome at Talk:List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris. Thank you. THEPROMENADER 17:36, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dang!

I really hope the rumors are untrue. You're one of the most valuable, hard working, clean thinking people the project has ever been honored with. Geogre 18:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

True. violet/riga (t) 19:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

In spades. Bishonen | talk 19:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC).

We'll miss you horribly. Your work in Wikipedia's featured content won't be forgotten. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 19:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again, but I meant it. The panegyrics are most flattering but not really required; Cecilia is, um, very nice; the port is much appreciated. Perhaps a glass tonight will help me think things over. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Morose rambling

I think I owe people an explanation of my odd behaviour yesterday.

I went on a short wikibreak a couple of weeks ago. On my return, I quickly noticed that the atmosphere seemed to have changed. I will struggle to point out exactly what was different, but there seemed to be a marked decrease in tolerance and civility. Perhaps I have been breathing the toxic fumes in WP:AN/I too much since I got back; and the bad-tempered cross-fire from the Carnildo RFA can't have helped.

An added ingredient yesterday was the re-promotion of User:Carnildo. I had checked the RFA several times, and assumed it would fail; in my mind, that was the right result, due to the demonstrable lack of consensus. (I am fully aware of the arguments for and against his re-promotion; I seldom vote on RFAs, and had little intention of throwing my cup full of petrol on that bonfire.) But now I am no longer sure I know what consensus is, nor that I can trust the ArbCom and the bureaucrats to do the "right" thing.

More or less successfully, I have tried to steer clear of wikipolitics and wikilawyering for the last 9 months or so, and to concentrate on writing articles instead, and I have been a much happier editor as a result. But I can't ignore that it now seems to be a blockable offence to fully and frankly (but civilly) exchange views, or to disagree with certain admins, particularly if that disagreement is expressed in forceful (but civil) terms, and that the rules seem to change when it suits the people making the rules.

Anyway, enough morose rambling. I am very grateful for the concern and appreciation that some have demonstrated. The lure of the encyclopedia that anyone can edit will probably draw me back - there are still redlinks to fill, and featured articles to be written. At the end of the day, this is a project in intellectual self-gratification, and I'm not sure how much fun it will be to contribute to a project like it seems to be becoming. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Reading the above was eerily like reading my own recent (and morose) thoughts. Please don't leave, you and your work are one of the reasons I stay. Paul August ☎ 16:45, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you want comments, but good luck. I've never been able to leave for more than a month at a time. Anyway, enjoy life. RyanGerbil10(Kick 'em in the dishpan!) 01:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, both. I am both glad and not glad that it is not just me. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bring me sunshine

Sigh. Refraining from editing has been like cutting off an arm. And I had no intention of driving poor Geogre to the point where he came out (on strike, that is) in sympathy. Please come back!

From what I have seen in a few places, I am not the only person to have perceived problems in community interaction developing over the past few weeks; but there seem to be a few glimmers on the horizon, and complete silence from me will not achieve much, other than making me more miserable. And it is truly excellent to see contributors like Radiant! back.

God, I hate this introspective crap. Shall we get back to that encyclopedia now then?

On a brighter note, I have a new Wikipedia:Featured article. Perhaps I should try to be more of the armour-hided and deliberately-advancing rhinoceros than the panicking elephant in future. I shall do my best to avoid the terminal dip in the Med...

My short break this week has at least allowed me to read some more of those dry papery things we call references (coming to a featured article candidate near you soon, once I build up a sufficient head of steam). Now, where did I leave my list of redlinks... -- ALoan (Talk) 20:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

You got sunshine. Was dismayed to see, on the eve of my message about my silly debate, an obviously widely-respected Wikipedian announce his intention to leave for 'personal' misgivings similar to those I had at the time. Just remember that it is for the reader we are doing this, and that the "personal" in contributing, just a bump on the way to a final result for us, is undetectable to he. Thanks for sticking it out. Courage : ) THEPROMENADER 20:45, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. As I wrote above, I think contributing here is essentially an exercise in personal intellectual self-gratification - we contribute because we enjoy doing it, and when it ceases to be fun, we stop. For a while, earlier this week, it stopped being fun for me.

But La Défense is still "in" Paris :) -- ALoan (Talk) 20:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

No it's not : P - but fun with fact anyways : ) THEPROMENADER 21:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Not that! I didn't say anything here when you left because you were begging people not to, but I will say I am very glad to to see you back. And a congrats on Durer's Rhino, too. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:03, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Glad you're back! We need some sane people editing :) Sam Vimes | Address me 08:32, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Aye, indeed, welcome back. Those... "debates", if they can be called that, aren't exactly productive and they're never going to cause anything good, so I'm keeping out of them for now. But which article were you talking about while on WP:BN? Titoxd^(?!?) 16:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Debates? Pah. At least everyone is remaining relatively civil. Interesting times, as they say. The ridiculous WP:ANI stuff is what gets me down.

Oh, you noticed a mention of an article, did you? :) Imagine - and there I was thinking that this was a social rules-making experiment. Anyway, all being well, it will be revealed in its glory to an adoring public later this week. It should not be too hard to work out, if you are so minded, but it is only about ⅓ done now, so please don't go looking for it! If I can find the time, between wikifiddling, I will be about ⅔ there later tonight. It has some lovely images, btw (not up to Dürer's class, but I like them). -- ALoan (Talk) 17:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Thanks for the barnstar. It's nice to know my work is appreciated!Andrew nixon 23:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ref system

Amazing there has not been one comment on the amazing reference system gracing the main page today. perhaps thigs are looking up! Giano | talk 12:45, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disgruntled Wikipedians' Breakfast Club

ALoan, consider your membership preapproved ;>--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 00:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Great to see you back here ALoan. A proper article writer. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 00:53, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I've just seen this has been created [5]. Well, you are the cool calm and eloquent one! Giano | talk 18:49, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Am I? Oh! :-ζ -- ALoan (Talk) 18:53, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

• Yep! Giano | talk 18:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh may I also apply for the membership? My principles differ from yours, however. I think it's better start ten new articles (not stubs) that write one featured. It appears to expand the wiki-oikoumene more dramatically. In other words, not a day without a new article. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 22:39, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine)'s club, but I am sure you won't get a blackball. I did the "new article" thing for a few months recently before running out of steam - have you seen User:ALoan/redlinks (which is a bit like the painting the Forth Railway Bridge, only the opposite colour)? I try to write up a few interesting obituaries from the broadsheet newspapers every week too, hence the links on my userpage (someone in Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography should really institute an organised daily harvest of newspaper obituaries, rather than fannying about with those incessant talk page templates). At the moment, I am trying to use the books I have out of the library to finish some FAs before they have to go back. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It may have been my idea, but it is OUR club. And what sort of club would it be without a "Churlish Russian Bear"?! Ghirla, you are more than welcome ;>--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 12:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Bear? Do you know something I don't? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:58, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Essay

Having thought about it further, I have become more convinced that WP:BULL and its 1FA antecedents have something to say for themselves.

Of course it is important that someone deals with the administrative tasks, and defends the wiki from trolls and vandals, but much of that can be done without admin-potestas. Other than the abilities to block/unblock, protect/unprotect, and delete/undelete, and the shiny rollback button, there is little magic about admin status, and that is why it should be "no big deal". I have often said that RFA criteria are too strict (x edits in y months; not enough edits in foo-space), and that essentially any regular editor in good standing ought to be an admin. Many hands make light work. But I do insist that an admin should have a proper understanding of the spirit of Wikipedia: I don't want admins to be just soldier ants or policy wonks, or i-dotters and t-crossers. They should be writers and editors of whole articles too.

Our primary purpose is the writing of encyclopedia articles, and admins should understand and care about how the Wikipedia writing process works. You can't get a more concrete example of that than the featured article. To get an article to featured standard, you have to do research, write well, resolve disputes, follow policies and guidelines, and interact with the talk page and in Wikipedia space. Not least, the process of writing a featured article often ends up creating a cascade of new content in other articles, either daughter sub-pages or new redlinks filled.

I want admins to be rounded people, with experience of writing substantial parts of whole articles, not just fiddling at the margins. Yes, copyediting and technical tweaks are essential to improve our articles - many hands, many eyes - but contributing substantial portions of prose to a featured article brings an understanding of the vagaries and frustrations of being a contributor. We are all human, with our own ideas and opinions and feelings. Sometimes we feel strongly about issues, and we should not hold back from expressing our opinions, short of personal attacks or incivility. We should all have respect for each other, and that means having respect for people who disagree with us.

I don't see the criterion that admins must have subsatantially contributed to a featured article each year as being unduly restrictive; quite the opposite: it is a simple, clear, bright-line test that anyone could pass with a bit of work. But it should not be the only test: it is really a proxy for the underlying skills necessary to make this thing work, of understanding, compromise, and adherence to the wiki spirit.

I just want I want to get people out of the mode that says "I am an administrator. I am right. Shut the fuck up and do as I say or I will block you." End of peroration. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:58, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Simple English

Many thanks for your helpful comment at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom/Other. You don't have to write the report in simple English, but it might be amusing if you did :)

After having a quick look, I have been considering becoming active at simple, as a refuge from the madhouse that this place seems to be becoming. Are there any areas where help is desperately required? -- ALoan (Talk) 10:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I am considering "translating" the interwiki report into Simple English when complete, so that people can see what that's like. If you're looking for a place to start on Simple, we maintain a list of simple:Wikipedia:List of articles all languages should have, which is a baseline list of ~1000 articles that are most encyclopedic. I'm not sure what area interests you, but almost any of those on that list could use some work. See simple:Wikipedia:How to write Simple English articles for our basic writing guidelines. -- Netoholic @ 14:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of temples of the CJC of LDS

Several months ago you kindly responded with some comments on the preparation of List of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for submission as a featured list. Would you mind reviewing the progress - I think the only thing lacking is that each row does not yet have a picture. However, since pictures aren't required, I think it is ready for review. TIA --Trödel 01:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

That looks pretty good - well done. I can't immediately think of anything to suggest. Go ahead and nominate it. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Thx for the praise - there have been many contributors :) --Trödel 19:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted on purpose?

Was it ? Bishonen | talk 12:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC).

Absolutely not. Entirely inadvertant. 1 million apologies. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

No, no, I know it's a bug. (I guess the software hates you. :-() Bishonen | talk 12:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC).

[edit] DYK

On 13 September 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Anne Gregg, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] Oxford English Dictionary, singular their and they after every, any, no, etc.

Hmm - literary uses of singular their, anyone? Caxton? Shakespeare? Jane Austen? Thackeray? -- ALoan (Talk) 19:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Seriously? Of course there is. Lots, and you won't catch a linguist objecting to it. A schoolmaster, yes. Here's some Thackeray and suchlike for you, from 1420 on:

Their

OED, 3. Often used in relation to a singular n. or pronoun denoting a person, after each, every, either, neither, no one, every one, etc. Also so used instead of ‘his or her’, when the gender is inclusive or uncertain.

13.. Cursor M. 389 (Cott.) Bath ware made sun and mon, Ai{th}er wit {th}er ouen light. c1420 Sir Amadace (Camden) l, Iche mon in thayre degre. 14.. Arth. & Merl. 2440 (Kölbing) Many a Sarazen lost their liffe. 1533 [see THEMSELVES 5]. 1545 ABP. PARKER Let. to Bp. Gardiner 8 May, Thus was it agreed among us that every president should assemble their companies. 1563 WIN{ygh}ET Four Scoir Thre Quest. liv, A man or woman being lang absent fra thair party. 1641 [see A. {alpha}]. 1643 TRAPP Comm. Gen. xxiv. 22 Each Countrey hath their fashions, and garnishes. 1749 FIELDING Tom Jones VII. xiv, Every one in the House were in their Beds. 1771 GOLDSM. Hist. Eng. III. 241 Every person..now recovered their liberty. a1845 SYD. SMITH Wks. (1850) 175 Every human being must do something with their existence. 1848 THACKERAY Van. Fair xli, A person can't help their birth. 1858 BAGEHOT Lit. Studies (1879) II. 206 Nobody in their senses would describe Gray's ‘Elegy’ as [etc.]. 1898 G. B. SHAW Plays II. Candida 86 It's enough to drive anyone out of their senses.

They

OED, 2. Often used in reference to a singular noun made universal by every, any, no, etc., or applicable to one of either sex (= ‘he or she’).
See Jespersen Progress in Lang. §24.

1526 Pilgr. Perf. (W. de W. 1531) 163b, Yf..a psalme scape ony persone, or a lesson, or else yt they omyt one verse or twayne. 1535 FISHER Ways perf. Relig. ix. Wks. (1876) 383 He neuer forsaketh any creature vnlesse they before haue forsaken them selues. 1749 FIELDING Tom Jones VIII. xi, Every Body fell a laughing, as how could they help it. 1759 CHESTERFIELD Lett. IV. ccclv. 170 If a person is born of a..gloomy temper..they cannot help it. 1835 WHEWELL in Life (1881) 173 Nobody can deprive us of the Church, if they would. 1858 BAGEHOT Lit. Stud. (1879) II. 206 Nobody fancies for a moment that they are reading about anything beyond the pale of ordinary propriety. 1866 RUSKIN Crown Wild Olives §38 (1873) 44 Now, nobody does anything well that they cannot help doing. 1874.

Bishonen | talk 14:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC).

Schoolmaster? Is that a personal attack? -- ALoan (Talk) 15:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

No, a personal attack would be "schoolmarm". When casting about for an insult, always use the feminine form. Bishonen | talk 15:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC).

Plink. It all makes sense now. Imagine a drama king. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jack Hobbs

I enjoyed reading what you've written on Jack Hobbs' early life. I don't have the John Arlott biography, but I do have the Ronald Mason one, which is very good. I'll add it to List_of_works_by_cricket_historians_and_writers. JH 17:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome. I based it all on the Wisden obituary and linked articles from cricinfo. There is clearly much more to be said about him: we could have a featured article if we tried. If you have a biography, please consider using it as a source to expand the article. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the piece could certainly do with more work. It's much shorter than the article on Herbert Sutcliffe for instance. I'll see what I can do when I have the time. JH 20:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I've done a bit more work on it, splitting into sections and hopefully removing the POV in the first paragraph with something more firmly based. See what you think. JH 17:42, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Attention of the breakfast club

Seen this [6] Giano | talk 20:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

This [7] explaims it very well, I full endorse what the writer is saying. Giano | talk 20:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

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[edit] Action, please?

Dear ALoan, please read my comment on this issue, agreeing with you and Giano and go about whatever consensus needs to be sought to restore the other Buckingham Palace image.

By the way, renewed thanks for your lessons to me when I started out a few months ago. I cannot deal with pix, etc., but as a writer/editor I use all the formatting you taught.

All the best. -- FClef (talk) 00:21, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. The new images is nice, but not ideal, IMHO. I have moved it down a bit and replaced the old one.

You are entirely welcome. The best way to learn is by seeing how other people do things and trying it out yourself. Someone is bound to correct you if you get it wrong :) For image, just copy another image and replace the file name and caption. -- ALoan (Talk) 00:48, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Brilliant edit. Incidentally, I have just been accepted on the City of London Guides course this year, starting in early Oct. Am actually a working tutor of English and professional pianist, but London hist. is a consuming hobby. Am getting prepared EARLY for the Olympics. ;] When you say "just copy another image" do you mean from another article, or from a Wiki commons page - or where from, exactly? -- FClef (talk) 01:57, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I mean the formatting - you know, [[Image:xxxx.jpg|stuff|caption]]. The square brackets are like any link or category; the "stuff" tell the image where to display (left, right) what size (100px, 200px, 100x100px, whatever) and what style (frame, thumb) and the caption is the caption (d'oh!). It doesn't matter if the image is here or at commons - the software will find it. For example - see right. -- ALoan (Talk) 02:49, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The good news is

I believe I have finally managed to read "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo" as an actual sentence. Now I can enjoy the second half of my life :-) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:43, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Now read some Peter and Jane (or Dick and Jane, if you prefer). There is an example story here. -- ALoan (Talk) 02:47, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I need some more context in one or both of those articles about what relationshion Peter and Jane has to Dick and Jane. Inspiration? Total coincidence? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:57, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I think D&J came first, so may have inspired P&J. But I have no proof. From the descriptions, they are quite different in style. There is also Janet and John, but Tony prefers not to write the article, despite my encouragement. -- ALoan (Talk) 03:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another DYK medal

[edit] Starthanks

Thanks for the honor! My cornucopia (of fruit) runneth over. All the best, – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 14:19, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FAOL?

Yep, I know that one. In fact, I kind of started it :) Gotta love them fishies. >Radiant< 15:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, I usually use the google translator. But there is quite a lot of mileage to had from translating articles from French, German, etc, into English and vice versa. I think it is a pity that there is not more inter-language co-operating. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interlingual

I would be happy to increase interlang coop some more, but I'm kind of at a loss how. The best I could come up with was WP:ECHO - we can't really make bilinguals work on both wikis, I suppose. Maybe we should botify a script that runs foreign articles through babblefish? >Radiant< 23:01, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I don't think it is worth your or anyone's time

I connection to this, please see this. Have a great weekend! --Irpen 09:19, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

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[edit] Arbcom appeal

I have launched a second appeal against the article ban, and have quoted your opinions in the statement of case based on a contribution of yours on the Administrators' Noticeboard. Just wanted to alert you in case I was quoting you out of context. David | Talk 20:05, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for notifying me. Without attribution, I see, but no matter. I think you have quoted me entirely in context. For what it is worth, and without looking at the background of the case in much detail, I think the neatest solution would be to let you edit the article notwithstanding the ArbCom ruling, but only so long as you make improvements; if you get involved in contentious edits, then the ArbCom ruling should come into full effect. -- ALoan (Talk) 08:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 17 September 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Peter and Jane, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] I'm leaving for awhile

Hi ALoan, I'm leaving for awhile in protest concerning recent events, please share any thoughts you might have on my talk page. Thanks. Paul August ☎ 17:51, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Hang on. How can Tony Sidaway have never encountered Giano until a couple of days ago and yet say that Giano had been complaining for months and complained so often that it's a "truism" that the complaints are wrong (without any refutation)? Sometimes, people don't even try to fool people, only themselves. Geogre 19:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I think his actions and words speak for themselves, rather loudly in fact. Noticeable (again) is his failure to engage with the issues raised, but rather dismiss them by reference to irrelevancies. You have mentioned the autistic side of Wikipedia before. Well, as Bunchofgrapes, I struggle to express my opinion of him without resorting to personal attacks (rather more personal and attacking than the ones that he usually takes issue with). Nonetheless, I will continue writing articles, in the hope that the world will come to what remains of its sense. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Janet and John

Thanks! Always happy to fill in a gap where I find it, if I have the knowledge or the references. :) - HTUK 07:09, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:CRIQ

Hi. It's nearly 3 days since you got the last question right. --Dweller 12:24, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

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[edit] Request

Hi ALoan. I have been following the events of the past few days regarding Giano et al. and must say these are indeed dark days for the wiki. If there is anything I can do for you, please do not hesitate to ask me.

Anyway, the original purpose of this message was to inform you that I will be away on holiday for most of next week. I just wanted to ask if you could please keep a closer eye on WP:FLC during that time. I would not ask you this under normal circumstances, however Renata3 is threatening to leave and you seem to be flirting with the idea still, and I think it is important to avoid the risk of FLC staling for too long.

Regards, -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 13:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Dark days indeed. Thanks for the message and the kind thoughts. Fortunately, there seems to be a cadre of editors who are interested in FLC, so I doubt it will get too out of date, but I will do what I can. Have a good break. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Nice memorium card ALoan, but probably a good idea to remove it for a while, I am back just to see my cause through and then off again - I do apprecate it very tasteful, just like me! Giano 07:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Holy moly - it is the second coming! Welcome back. Please stick around. I would hate to see you go again. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:05, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Staying on topic, This graph may be of interest to you. Regards. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 11:21, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

It is interesting. Linear, would you say? How do we go exponential? -- ALoan (Talk) 11:52, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Quite linear, yes. We should probably look for some easy-to-feature lists like List of national libraries

and advertise them. General advertisement and creating more awareness of the process might help too. A Signpost article may be helpful here. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 18:18, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for stepping in

Thanks for stepping in ALoan. Apparently User:Grcampbell (aka Bob) has decided to solve the case unilaterally, which of course goes against mediation. Unfortunately he also did the same yesterday, and I don't know if you have noticed it. He edited the La Défense article as well as 18 skyscraper articles (such as Tour Total, Tour Areva, etc.). His edit consisted, among other things, in changing the wording "La Défense located west of the city proper" into "La Défense located west of Paris". By doing so he's basically assuming that Paris means only the City of Paris, which is of course the opinion of some of the people who are at mediation, but not the opinion of other people (such as you or me) who are also taking part in the mediation process. By doing that he basically decided to ignore mediation and decide things unilaterally. I tried to explain to him at Talk:Tour AXA that there was a problem in the wording ("west of Paris" can mean Normandy or Dreux, but it's a bit confusing for a place like La Défense which is right in the heart of the Paris urban area). I tried to explain that "west of the city proper" is a more accurate language, but all I got as an answer was claims that it was bad grammar (yeah right), or nasty accusations such as "This is why so much of France doesn't like the Parisien attitude. Everything is in Paris, even that which is not." Check on the talk page. I reverted his changes, because we should wait for the end of mediation and not make changes related to mediation in the meantime, but he reverted me right away, and even accused me of being a vandal (!): [8]. This looks to me as a very anti-civil (or should I say anti-social?) behavior. What can we do? These articles should be reverted to how they stood at the start of mediation. Hardouin 22:45, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Stop crying and try looking at the actual facts. I don't care about opinions, only fact. --Bob 22:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

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[edit] Many Thanks!

Just a quick thank you for nominating the Slovenian cricket team article that I created for the DYK section on the main page. It's nice to know that what I do gets noticed! Andrew nixon 08:41, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] War and Peace

I read with interest and agreement you essay on Giano's page. I've had a stab at a policy proposal along similar lines User:Mcginnly/Sandbox/Policy ideas - I've never done one of these before so it's probably ridiculous, but it might contribute to the debate. --Mcginnly | Natter 13:26, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can you say something?

ALoan, User:Grcampbell has again reverted the La Défense article as well as about 20 skyscraper articles to push his vision that the name "Paris" can only be used for the City of Paris, completely ignoring the mediation going on. Can you say something to him? He doesn't seem to listen to me anymore. I notified the mediator (User:GofG), but he seems to be on vacation or something and doesn't answer his messages anymore. Grcampbell (aka Bob) first framed the wording "located west of the city proper" as "redundancy" and "grammar 101" ([9]). Now he says it's a "falsehood" ([10]). Falsehood?? If neither the mediator nor you answer messages, then who am I supposed to address my messages to? Hardouin 15:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Also please note that Grcampbell is trying to take control of my talk page by reverting an insulting message posted by ThePromenader which I had removed from my talk page: [11]. In that insulting message, ThePromenader called my edits, I quote: "inventive sh*te": [12]. Again, I don't know what to do. In the past, when I have filed a complain on the incident noticeboard, I didn't get any answer. Hardouin 16:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Please do complain, Hardouin: For the tower question, you have three contributors supporting the accurate version that you alone are reverting so many times. I can't see how you can ask the aid of an admin (are you an admin ALoan? excuse me if I assume you are for now) without mentioning this. This issue has nothing to do with the List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris at all, and this at once bold and vapid claim would not stand to more than a nanosecond of scrutiny - this is not what one can call honest behaviour. You've learned quite well that a well-constructed accusation can buy hours of time and distraction, even if it is completely false.

The post Hardouin removed from his talk page was a bit of advice written in the third person and named no one at all - why, Hardouin, do you pretend in your complaint here that you were named ? It's odd that you think this applies to you personally, but if the shoe fits... By all means, User:ALoan please read this for yourself, and you can also find it on my own talk page archives where you can find every warning or critique removed by him from his page. The tone may be harsh in some, but It's been more than a year of behaviour such as the above. I'll have you know that since months I've been building an WP:RfC case against this fellow - and it keeps just getting bigger.

Sorry for the mess, but any 'discipline' on the above complaints would be unfounded and unjust, and I felt the need to present things how they are. Regards. --THEPROMENADER 16:27, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Still no news from the mediator today. I restored the articles to how they stood at the start of mediation, but I was again reverted by ThePromenader ([13], [14], [15], [16], [17], etc.). It seems the note you left on the incident noticeboard did not manage to attract some admins unfortunately. I also contacted Andrew Norman and Trödel (User talk:Andrew Norman#Paris skyscrapers (sequel), User talk:Trödel#Paris skyscrapers (sequel)), perhaps you remember them, but they haven't responded so far. The situtation appears to be in a complete dead end, with ThePromenader bypassing the very mediation he called for. Hardouin 12:57, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, these articles are not in any mediation. Their present state is the result of an agreement between three contributors. Kindly stop the baseless and disruptive complaints, Hardouin. Again apologies for having to respond here. THEPROMENADER 14:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think it is extremely unhelpful for articles which relate to the mediation to be edited in a manner which one or other side to the mediation supports but the other does not, even if not they are not the subject matter of the mediation per se. As it happens, I prefer the "west of the city proper" formulation to "west of Paris", because the former makes clear that La Défense is part of the continuous urbanisation of Paris, while also clarifying its relationship to the City of Paris, but I am sure another form of words could be found to express this point elegantly rather than just ignoring it completely. Perhaps these pages should be added to the mediation.

I have to say, given the entrenched positions of the parties, not to mention the disappointing standard of conversation (in terms of civility and avoiding personal attacks), I doubt whether the mediation will succeed, but we should let it run its natural course. The next stop is presumably some sort of WP:RFC.

Anyway, please, both of you, stop cluttering up my talk page on these issues. That is what the mediation page is for. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:48, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How about we overhaul DYK completely?

I know you've followed WT:DYK a lot more than I have, ALoan. Over in IRC, as part of the notion that it is time for Wikipedia to focus a bit more on improvement of existing stuff and a bit less on growth, the suggestion came up that DYK be reworked to feature recently-improved articles rather than new articles. (Although I suppose it could include both, since new articles are by definition improved, right?) Is this a perennial suggestion? It feels like it would be. Either way, I'm wondering about your thoughts on this idea and also if in your opinion this it could have a chance of getting implemented. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

That would not be such a complete overhaul - substantial expansions of existing articles (i.e. stubs that get turned into proper articles) are already eligible for WP:DYK, on the basis that it would be unfair for a useless stub to gazump an essentially new article. DYK has operated that way for some months - many of my recent DYK entries existed as one- or two-line articles before I expanded them substantially (mostly, recently, very short biographies that I have expanded using obituary notices). There is recent discussion on the point in WT:DYK, where some contributors were complaining that some DYK entries were not all entirely new articles.

There has been a relatively recent move (last few months) to insist that DYK entries are properly referenced, which is definitely a step in the right direction.

Perhaps you are suggesting a new DYK criterion: for example, any article can become a DYK if it is expanded by x bytes, or y hundred words, or z-percent? I wonder what you would choose as x, y or z? -- ALoan (Talk) 10:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

It wouldn't even be about expansion any more -- a long article that was an unreferenced POV mess that got turned into a tight, referenced, encyclopedic piece should be eligible. I recognize the problem: how *do* we define the crtieria for inclusion? Unlike FAC, we don't have time at DYK to have full-blown discussions about every entry. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:20, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see what you mean. You are right: it would be very difficult to set appropriate criteria for eligibility, and rather difficult to judge candidates too. DYK is a relatively peaceful corner of Wikipedia at the moment, and I can see this causing all sorts of potential problems. However, I think it is worth floating as an idea on WT:DYK though. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LDS Temple featured list nomination

I think it would be better to resolve the formatting issues that come up first. In other words, although I think it is ok to have a featured list that is "in process," I don't think it reflects our best work to have a major change like the formatting one proposed as a featured list - but rather work out such a major issue first, so that the list reflects the our best work. I realize that it might have to go through the whole process again, but I think it is necessary for full disclosure. OTOH, if you disagree - i.e. by using the Talk:List of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/New Format page we can avoid major changes until they are agreed, and the nomination would hold for the new format, i.e meet the same standards, please let me know as I would like to see it featured :) --Trödel 13:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FACfailed

Erk, you were responding to a typo of mine. I meant {{failedGA}}. Marskell 10:10, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Absence of e-mail

I forgot to mention that my Wikipedia e-mail has been broken for almost 2 weeks, so I won't have read anything that you have sent me in that time. Sorry - hopefully ComputerRepairMan will do his stuff shortly. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:47, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John Lyttelton, 11th Viscount Cobham

Since you created this article, the Guardian has printed a correction to say it was Lady Cobham who was an advisor to Mellor rather than her husband. I've made some changes, but thought you might like to review it too. JRawle (Talk) 00:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that one. I didn't spot the erratum. That's what you get for repeating information from secondary sources... -- ALoan (Talk) 00:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

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[edit] Dürer's Rhinoceros

I saw your message on fr:, for this article translation. Looking at this article I see: A live rhinoceros was not seen again in Europe until another specimen arrived in London from India in 1684. but on fr we have an article Philippe II Rhinoceros 1577 - 1586 with a source given J. Puerto, La leyenda verde. Naturaleza, sanidad y ciencia en la corte de Felipe II (1527-1598). Valladolid : Castilla y Leon. consejeria de Educacion y Cultura, 2003, p. 186.. Any thought ? (reply to fr:user talk:Phe please) phe 01:22, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rhinocéros de Dürer

hi, thanks for your encouragement :) I try to improve my english translating wikipédia's articles (but im not perfect at all). It's very interesting to work on this article's type like Dürer's Rhinoceros. You do a good job too :) (in french "bon travail" :p ) Have a nice day :)) -- fr:Utilisateur:Flfl10 30 septembre 2006 à 10:06 (CEST)

[edit] Enrico Tellini

hi!
is it ok to merge your article Enrico Tellini with the Corfu incident? if it is could you please help me because i am quite inexperianced .