User talk:ALoan/Archive12

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Contents

[edit] Wikipedia talk:Featured articles

Hi ALoan, how come you deleted my comment on Wikipedia talk:Featured articles ? It was probably not done on purpose, but since there was a fair amount of time between our two edits, it can not be an edit conflict or anything like this, so I was wondering what happenend. Schutz 16:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem — thanks for the explanations. Cheers, Schutz 18:45, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent changes to Project page

Hi. You've removed the Recent Changes to Test Cricketers link on the Wikiproject:Cricket page. I'm not wise enough to know how to re-create it there or elsewhere, but it's the one link I use to check whether cricket bios are being updated constructively (or not). Could you either restore or provide me with a link to put it somewhere else, such as my user page, please. Johnlp 20:32, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I'll add them to my user page, so if you want to take them off the Project page that'd be fine. I just use them a bit to see what's going on elsewhere. Johnlp 13:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diet

Thanks for the compliment, though as I replied on talk page, the credit is due to original writing team. If you feel its FAC material, please feel free - I've seen what happens when folks self-nom or nom articles they've done a lot of work on .Bridesmill 00:27, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The signpost

Hi. Concerning this revert, a good standard Wikipedia practice is that reverts which are not plain vandalim better be reverted using an edit summary, as otherwise it is not clear why you did the revert, and the good faith editor which was reverted may get offended that his/her edits are treated as vandalism. This is a small thing, but I thought I'd mention it. You can reply here if you have any comments. Thanks, Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 23:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your concern, but the reason for that link to be capitalised in that particular way had already been discussed on the talk page. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, that's exactly what one should write in the edit summary, or at least, saying "see talk". I am not saying you did the wrong thing, I am picking at how you did it. :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 15:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italia victorious

Repubblica Italiana. I thought you may like to have one of these to wave for the duration of the world cup. That you too may then share in the ultimate glorious victory that will be ours

Can someone please pass me a mast to which I can nail my colours?

[edit] Robinson-Montagu 6th Rokeby

I'm fixin' to do this one. He's part of a particular family: If he's who I think he is, then his aunt was Sarah Scott, and his other aunt was Elizabeth Montagu, both of whose articles I did. It struck me at the time that this was a very, very dark family. Between you and me, I think that Matthew Robinson Sr., patriarch and father of SS and EM and MR father of 6th Rokeby, was a child molestor. It would explain SS and EM's truly pathological fear of sex and their views of sex as Satanic. (You'd have to read Millennium Hall to see what I mean, and I don't actually wish that book on anyone. If you find yourself overwhelmed by curiosity and pick it up, be sure not to read the introduction to the "Virago" edition, as it's written by a true chowder-head.) Geogre 18:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Gosh! I can add some sources on his life and career as an Army officer, from Waterloo to the Crimea.[1][2][3][4] He was indeed the 6th Baron (Henry Robinson-Montagu, 6th Baron Rokeby or Henry Montagu, 6th Baron Rokeby - redirects required).
The family history seems a bit confused. From the dates, Elizabeth Montagu (incidentally, Edward Montagu goes to completely the wrong place) seems to be the sister of Matthew Robinson, 2nd Baron Rokeby. His article says that he is the son of Septimus Robinson, but this source says their father was Matthew Robinson (1694-1778) who marrried Elizabeth Drake (which reconciles with Elizabeth Montagu's article, which says that Matthew Robinson was her father). The second Matthew apparently changed his name to Robinson-Morris in 1746. He died without issue, so the children of his (?)younger brother Morris Robinson (?-1777) inherited the title (Morris Robinson, 3rd Baron Rokeby, 1757-1829; Matthew Montagu, 4th Baron Rokeby, 1762-1831).
Ok, interlining here: Yes, believe it or not, that's correct. Elizabeth's mother was related to the Robinson-Rokeby, while her father was not as directly. Her father's family were all Matthews. Geogre 21:19, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
4th Rokeby changed his name to Montagu in 1776 (it is not clear to me why, as the various peerages with that name - Baron Montagu of Boughton, Earl of Sandwich, Duke of Manchester and Duke of Montagu and others - all seemed to be going strong). 4th Rokeby had masses of long-lived daughters. Edward Montagu, 5th Baron Rokeby (1787-1847) was his 9th child and 6th Rokeby was his 10th.[5] 6th Rokeby had two daughter, so presuambly the title is in abeyance rather than extinct.
Alright, I know why 4th did that. He had been adopted by Elizabeth when he was very young and his father died. She left him all the MONTAGU money (which was a ton), making her her sole heir, as her only child died at the age of two. The matrilineal Robinson money didn't amount to much compared to the Montagu money, and the Rokeby money didn't amount to much in comparison, either, as Montagu had done a great deal to increase his money, and Elizabeth was no fool with money, either. So, Robinson becomes Robinson-Montagu. Geogre 21:19, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
What a tangled web. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
It seems that I was going to do the 4th, not the 6th, but the DNB had scattered the biographies hither and thither, and I couldn't find the right one in any case, so I did William Duncombe (an EM friend and a friend of that whole Whigger-than-thou group that became bluestockings) and a David Durand who I just stumbled over in the same volume. Geogre 21:19,

12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: RfA

Yes please. If anything, it might stop people from messaging that they want me to consider it. ;) (although there may be an increase in people needing help...) Sam Vimes 07:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Seven days on, and I appear to have a couple of extra buttons plus an oversized virtual mop. Scant consolation for the underperforming by England medium pace bowlers, though, but anyway, cheers for nominating me! Sam Vimes 17:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Futnut question on my talk

Hi, ALoan. A rather new user asked me about references for his FAC article, and I recommended your Footnote Frenzy system, as in Simon Byrne. You may remember it's not the system I prefer to use myself, so I took five minutes to eddicate myself about it and then described it — possibly not the most promising way of getting it right. (I saw the young user had already been sent on once, so I didn't want to do that.) Could you glance at what I told him, please? And possibly add "She's joking, this is how you really do it"? My reply is on his talkpage also. Thanks! Bishonen | talk 06:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC).

[edit] WP:CRIQ

Seeing as you're tidying it up, are you going to update the scoreboard too? ;-) Dweller 10:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Ahem. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
lol Dweller 10:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Next question? --Dweller 11:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hearne family tree

I'm going to knock up a family tree for Hearne family (I did the Allen family one) but looking at your rough one on the talk page you have an R as brother to A, F & GG. Is this a typo as I can't find a reference to an R.Hearne. I've also seen that there is an G.Burton & F.Burton who are brother-in-law and nephew to GF and E.Sturgess, grandson of H. Are these worth adding in? Bedders 10:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry - I can't remember where R Hearne came from. I'll try to check back. It would certainly be worth adding in the in-laws. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Belton House

Thanks for the copy edit, there is quite a bit more to do yet, I have to write a much longer and complete lead, and then expand the 20th century section and the interior section - I don't want to drag on about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, but I suppose if I don't some-one else will only go and shove it in in the wrong place. I'm thinking of FACing it eventually, bit I think it will have to be reduced in size first as it's a bit verbose at the moment. Thanks Giano | talk 09:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I tried to remove some of the verbosity in the middle, but it does repeat itself a little on the interior (details of the Marble Hall twice, for example, although in different contexts). Tell me when you are done and I will look at it again. Good luck. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gift Aid

You're either an accountant or you work for the Revenue...! --Dweller 14:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, we all work for the Revenue, for the first half of the year anyway. I am a tax professional, but not an accountant. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
It figures. From the figures. --Dweller 16:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On June 20, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article John Vinelott, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

— BRIAN0918 • 2006-06-20 15:58

[edit] Your article, Giovanni Antonio Pellegrini, was selected for DYK!

Updated DYK query On June 21, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Giovanni Antonio Pellegrini, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! ++Lar: t/c 00:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Good name :) Raul654 00:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

For the medal; my 1st one on wiki - woohoo. No offense at all; I lived 3 years in Moscow, my birthday is Soviet Army Day (23 Feb), and I have a bust of Lenin on my desk, so what's a Sov medal? (wiki)Workers of the world unite & all that .Bridesmill 13:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Given the history of that particular medal I don't think anyone should be offended ("Exceeded monthly labor quotas at the novoslobskij proletarian widget factory #473", etc.)- as long as we don't start giving each other the Victoria Cross or Medal of Honor. An as per Soviet stuff, hey, regardless of politics, it doesn't get more communist than wiki - amongst other things, everyone is equal, you don't get paid, <silliness> a secret cabal runs the place </silliness> Bridesmill 13:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Cross Article

Hi there, I kindly ask you to check today's changes to the article about the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement‎ made by User:Francis Schonken, and the respective discussion on the talk page of the article. I provided a number of reasons why I reverted this changes, and I sincerely believe the reasons to be valid and his reasoning to be based on a lack of insight into the complicated historical and legal grounds regarding the emblem issue. As I don't want to run into an edit war, I would be happy to get additional opinions from other users. --Uwe 15:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] CFM

Don't tell me - classic FM? Giano | talk 13:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

What, my expansion of Ture Rangström? No, machine translation of the article in Swedish Wikipedia. This week, I have mostly been expanding bios of dead people from their obits (Lars Gyllensten, Roland Boyes, Fritz Klein, John Vinelott), with the notable exception of writing much of Fourteen Points and creating pleasure gardens. And watching the football.
After the triumph of Belton House, can I point you to the relatively poverty of Burghley House and Castle Howard? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On June 25, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Roland Boyes, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--BRIAN0918 20:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your article, Anthony Marreco, was selected for DYK!

Updated DYK query On June 30, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Anthony Marreco, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! ++Lar: t/c 17:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Court citations and the Wikipedia Signpost

I notice you added a mention to Wikipedia:Wikipedia as a court source. I'm working on a Signpost story about the High Court citation and other UK court citations, and have included this case and a heads up to you for finding it. If there's anything you want to add or correct, please feel free to edit User:Dbiv/Wikipedia Signpost/2006-07-03/Wikipedia cited by the England and Wales High Court. David | Talk 10:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your article, Palace of Tau, was selected for DYK!

Updated DYK query On July 1, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Palace of Tau, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! ++Lar: t/c 15:19, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tip of the day project update

Just trying to get things better organized around there. Toward that end, I've created a task list template for the project. If all the members of the project placed it on their user page, we could all keep in touch more easily (with announcements, alerts, etc.). It, and the latest announcements can be found at:

totd task list template

--Go for it! 17:06, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On July 5, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Peter Rawlinson, Baron Rawlinson of Ewell, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--BRIAN0918 04:29, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Means a lot to hear this from you :-) Glad you enjoyed it! Ta bu shi da yu 15:05, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks from a completely unrelated source

Thanks moving my request and for the advice on Giano's Talk page. I put my stuff at the top because it said Please leave new messages here (or words to that effect), but the top of your Talk page is certainly unambiguous...

Thanks for your encouragement re Trooping the Colour. I would appreciate your feedback and any positive edits on the article.

Please add it to your watch list if you have time and communicate any further points at Talk:Trooping the Colour (see? I have learned from you already how to ref an article's Talk page - and my sig will be next).

Hope you're enjoying the summer. (or winter, if you're in the S. Hemisphere) -- FClef 16:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

A-HAAA! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction re sig. -- FClef (Talk) 23:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another DYK!

Updated DYK query On July 7, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Hepatizon, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.
  • Thanks for the great contribution! I enjoyed the article (had to shorten the tagline somewhat to fit on Main Page, hope you don't mind) -- Samir धर्म 07:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abbey of Fontenay DYK

Updated DYK query Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Abbey of Fontenay, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Wow, you're building quite a list of these :) GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 19:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bassmasters and Past Masters

Which is a way of saying that I'm going fishing for compliments. Did you see artistic inspiration? I know I write a lot of competent articles, but that one was, I thought, really pretty flippin' good for just one dude and his reference work. Geogre 20:17, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion review for Template:Good article

hi, i hope you can take part in the deletion review debate for the above metadata template that puts a star on the article's mainpage (you voted in the original deletion debate). the vote is here Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2006 July 8 (scroll down for Template:Good Article section). thanks. Zzzzz 00:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Palmeral of Elche

Updated DYK query On July 9, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Palmeral of Elche, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 10:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Promotion of List of European Union member states by political system to FL status

You seem to have promoted the list ignoring my concerns with the neutrality of the "Freedom House" ratings. That's no big deal, however, I find it a bit disrespectful and against the promotion criteria. Mário 11:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I've just noticed that you edited the list before promotion, nonetheless, the "Freedom House" ratings still have a major presence in the article, the list was much better before. Mário 11:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment, and I am sorry if you thought I was "disrespectful". I thought Nightstallion had addressed your comment adequately, but clearly not to your satisfaction. I have had a further go - let me know if that is better.
I think you may be misunderstanding WP:NPOV if you think that we can only use neutral sources, and that "partial" sources are off limits (ignoring for the time being whether Freedom House is neutral or not). So long as the criteria and source are cited and explained in a neutral way, that is enough. If you can find a contrary source, feel free to add it. There are links to Freedom House, where there is already a criticism section: it would make sense to add your concerns there so readers can see for themselves what the issues are. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:53, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
It's no big deal, sorry if I was a bit harsh, it wasn't my intention, I'm not a native speaker and I often don't use the better words. You removed the references to the Freedom House opinion from the lead, that's the part I criticized, so, excluding the map, the article is good now. I just don't think the article should include "Freedom House claims x,y and z about the EU countries" in the lead, like if Freedom House was the major and the only source of political opinions in the world, also, it is not even European. Along with that, the presence of such considerations would allow anyone to include the opinion of any other think tank in the lead. That wouldn't improve the article's neutrality. Thanks for your attention! Mário 12:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red read for you

Since you put me onto a good and juicy topic, I'd like to return the favor. Did you know that we have no article on Dove Cottage, where William and Dorothy Wordsworth lived? Pretty significant spot, and a big tourist draw in the lake country. Geogre 14:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, that is an excellent redlink. Thanks. I have not been ignoring your inspiring opus, btw - I am just not sure that I can add anything to your mellifluous tones.
I have been working through my redlist - see the DYK things above - and adding new ones to it, as you might have seen (it seems like every time I write an article I create another six redlinks). I have also been adding lots of recently dead people - there really ought to be a WikiProject to write up biographies of anyone who has an obit in a mainstream "serious" newspaper (The Times, NYT, WaPo, etc). It is such excellent fact-packed material to crib from, and there are so many really interesting people (her, him). The result can look a bit like a patchwork, and but it is miles better than a one-line stub. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I just was fishing for a compliment on that article -- just "gosh, that looks pretty good" or "it has pretty colors" or something. Anyway, Dove Cottage is one of those very, very rare finds: a truly major cultural touchstone that no one has even attempted. By the way, your "her" is a very interesting figure, but I don't know "him" at all. With those people, there are Who's Who bits to grab from, too, and there are probably multiple online obits. In some cases, there will even be "assessments" afterward, too ("Maynard Keynes and the Passing of an Era" kinds of things). Very fruitful. We should keep it quiet, though, or everyone will do it...and probably with a blinkin' infobox. Geogre 20:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Carol Mather

I'm sorry Carol Mather didn't make it to DYK. I saw your update after the article became 'stale'. I hope this doesn't put you off. Feel free to submit something new later. - Mgm|(talk) 08:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

C'est la vie... -- ALoan (Talk) 18:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alcobaça

Of course I don't mind if you edit Monastery of Alcobaça, in fact I wellcome it. I plan to continue enlarging this article with information about the art in the monument. Greetings, fsouza

[edit] June...

Updated DYK query On 13 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article June Lloyd, Baroness Lloyd of Highbury, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

THanks for the expansion to the article. --Mgm|(talk) 09:02, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

By the way:

Updated DYK query Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Monastery of Alcobaça, which you recently nominated, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Mgm|(talk) 09:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes - Aaaaarrrrggggh!

Hi - I'm writing because you encouraged me to consult you about inline citations. Please note I will also copy this to the Help Desk for other views, but I would appreciate your replying to me individually on this: -

I am trying to learn inline citation so that I can raise articles to Featured Article standard. Please could you take a look at the article Grenadier Guards which I do not see as a FA. I have made an attempt to generate a footnote as a test case for other articles I'm working on.

However, I have enountered difficulties in execution and also in terminology. Let me first say I know about bibliographic and citation style, but have had trouble with

  • working with the "ref" and "note" templates. Having checked the appropriate Wikipedia How-to page - WP:IC - on this, I'm thoroughly confused. I tried to create a footnote in Grenadier Guards using the "ref" and "note" templates. The note looks OK, but the ref in the text (it's in the Marches section) is NOT ok. Could you please take a look and advise me as to where I'm going wrong on this? I will keep a watch on your Talk Page or - possibly better - could you reply to mine and keep a friendly eye on me for the moment?
  • Relating what seems to be "Reference" advice to my Footnotes and Reference section. The instructions on the How-To page do not clearly distinguish between a Footnote and a Reference. To my understanding, the Reference section is a bibliography and each reference item would appear therein only once. Meanwhile, Footnotes can refer to the same text a number of times - i.e., Ibid. and Op. Cit. references, etc. etc.

Are the "ref" and "note" templates actually for footnote use? What am I missing here?

  • And finally: in the article Grenadier Guards have I placed the Footnotes, References, See Also and External Links categories in the right order?

Your sage advice welcomed as always. -- FClef (Talk) 00:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

This is to let you know that User Fuhgettaboutit (I hope I've spelled that right) fixed things from my Help Desk request. by using some advanced formats. However, that doesn't help with some of the doubts I had. I don't have the technology for the {ref/} option...What should I do in the future for footnotes? Any advice appreciated. -- FClef (Talk) 01:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I think I've got this straight

AHA! I think I've solved my own problems. Do I do the "References" section using Citation Templates - WP:CITET - ?

And do I use [1] tags within the text, containing between them the footnote, followed by a Notes section with

  1. ^ and

for "Footnotes"? as described at WP:FN Please confirm that my understanding of this is correct. Thanks for your forbearance. It's a steep learning curve. -- FClef (Talk) 02:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Replying to your message on my page - I would love to outline the difficulties I had to the gods of Wikipedia in order to suggest improvements. How do I do that? (a simple page shortcut will suffice, and any advice you feel necessary) -- FClef (Talk) 12:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References versus Notes / consequent citation issues

My final queries - I think some of them may be unanswerable (they are certainly unrepeatable, heh-heh): I'd be so grateful if you could bullet your answers separately

  • Are References basically considered as identical to "Notes"? - see the last reply to me on the Wikipedia HelpDesk (In some articles they do the job of Footnotes or Notes; in others, e.g., Buckingham Palace, there are sections for both References and notes.)
  • !!!But I observe in B Pal that the Notes section does not use normal footnote crediting format - it is just used to amplify the text.
  • I see that the cite format employs inversion of first and final names. That's fine for a Bibliography, but in Footnotes the firstname comes first normally and parentheses are used for publishing data e.g. (London: John Murray Ltd., 1979) ...can I alter the order of things when doing the piped links on the cite template OR does it not matter? OR - see the first and second bullet point above - should Notes NOT have the full form of the reference, but just use a surname (as Giano does in B PAL)?

I think I am probably in OK shape to start applying what I know but any further clarification you can give will be welcome. -- FClef (Talk) 12:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

References are not quite the same thing as notes, although they often merge together.
There is little in the way of mandatory practice here. The <ref> system is the easiest way to do footnotes, and many people put their references in the footnotes and put the <references/> tag in the "References" section. Others like to have proper footnotes (Smith, 1999, page 20) and use the <ref> system for that, putting them in a "Notes" section with separate fully-cited references in a separate "References" section. Horses for courses.
None of the these formats are mandatory (neither <ref>s not the {{cite}} format) although some people consider them best practice. I must admit to never having used the various cite formats. Some people may winge about format, but at the end of the day, so long as the information is cited, that is the main thing. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I cry you Gramercy! - (from medieval French: "Grand merci") -- FClef (Talk) 13:11, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sanssouci as an example of FA-class articles

Good question you asked. I'd be delighted if the referencing were tweaked to satisfy trivial complaints; I suggested the article because it's beautifully written and illustrated, and has none of the political issues that surround the current example. Tony 13:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - I was eavesdropping on Giano's talk page and saw your comment. I suspect the references issue with Sanssouci is that external links have no "last accessed" date (which is a technical fault) or that the {{cite}} templates are not used (as those templates are not mandatory, I would have less sympathy with this complaint).
I think our copyediting standards differ slightly (from your comments on WP:FAR, it seems that you are rarely satisfied!) but we certainly agree that Sanssouci is excellent. It is a pity that other articles are not as well written and thoroughly copyedited as Sanssouci. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK, again.

Updated DYK query On 15 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Betty Snowball, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--LV (Dark Mark) 15:22, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ICRC move/creation

Hello Aloan, for the past few months I've been writing a new International Committee of the Red Cross article. I'm finally satisfied enough to propose its move into the main namespace, though it's far from perfect. That article is at User:Draeco/ICRC, and I've proposed a move here. I hope you can take the time to give your opinion, because I see you've commented on the subject before here. - Draeco 18:00, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your article, Thomas Phaire, was selected for DYK!

Updated DYK query On July 18, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Thomas Phaire, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! ++Lar: t/c 00:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

For your meritorious service to DYK.Blnguyen | rant-line 07:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
For your meritorious service to DYK.Blnguyen | rant-line 07:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Charles Gascoigne

Good article, but seems to lack references. Are these external links actual references? Circeus 23:07, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, they are really, although not really of the highest quality. It would be nice to have a reference to DNB or a biography. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My dear ALoan

My dear ALoan, tho we have never talked before, after eavesdropping at Geogre's talk page I couldn't resist and I really wanted to drop by and say hi. I've found your latest articles fascinating, and I'm positive I'm not the only one - you are so talented! I also wanted to give you a little tip regarding another possible entry you may be interested in, since you included it at your list of red links. In case you didn't know, there's quite a substantial article about Hansken the elephant at de.Wikipedia, and quite a bit of material at Commons too. I tried to make a basic translation of the German article, but I'm afraid my knowledge of the German language is comparable to those of the breeding habits of the Elves... in any case, I hope that helps, and please, keep up the awesome work! A great hug, Phaedriel ♥ The Wiki Soundtrack!♪ - 10:33, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello. Gosh, thanks for the compliment :) Yes, I had noticed the materials on Hansken, but thanks for the pointer anyway. I find machine translation (e.g. babelfish) side-by-side with the original makes translation a bit easier. A project for next week, now, but feel free to have a stab if you have some time. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:42, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi ALoan, based on a discussion with Phaedriel, I've begun work by copying the de: text over and pasting in the babelfish translation here: User:Lar/Hansken (elephant)... since you said you're busy, I'll take a crack at it if you like. Perhaps we can collaborate to refine the text further after I give it a go. My German is not very good but I do have some small knowledge. Happy editing. ++Lar: t/c 21:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
Oh, but next week has now arrived :) I decided to drop "the elephant" and go with Hansken. Your translation was very useful - thanks. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:54, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
OK, glad I checked before I started working. Nice work. ++Lar: t/c 19:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Nomed for DYK: [6] I think it could still stand some expansion, I may take a crack but it's good already. ++Lar: t/c 15:38, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Fine - thanks. It could certainly be expanded more if you have the time and inclination (I chopped bits out of the German, and there is a recent book in Dutch by Michiel Roscam Abbing, Rembrandts olifant, soon to be published in English). -- ALoan (Talk) 16:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish wikipedia

Hi! Nice to meet you! As you will see, my english is not good enough to make translations from Spanish or Catalan to English, so I can’t help you. Sorry :(. But I tried to help adding more info to the Spanish article about Vall de Boí and making a new one about the romanic churches in the valley. I hope this will help you Airunp 15:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two DYKs

Updated DYK query On 22 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Charles Gascoigne, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.
Updated DYK query On 22 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dove Cottage, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

-- Grue  19:21, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 23 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dürer's Rhinoceros, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Jaranda wat's sup 02:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk: Buckingham Palace

I have made substantial additions to the History section, with concomitant additions to Footnotes and References.

I do hope that you like the material, which mostly deals with the early history of the site that no-one ever confronts....

Thanks for your advice which I have put into practice. Please feel free to improve my Reference entries of the websites if you think they could be cleaned up.

Dear ALoan, could you please show me how to CITE a website? I know how add it to References, but do not know how to CITE it in the body of the text (and consequently, how to <ref> <ref/> it. (By the way - I've learned the "nowiki" bit from you as well - thanks...)The "cite web template" was confusing to me in this regard. i.e., I tried it and it didn't work well. (I will look over your notes again, having kept them). I know it's complicated and they warn not to use it, but how do you, in effect, quote and footnote a website? hmmmm.

If you are in Britain, I hope you are not, as we all are, feeling burned to a crisp or alternatively as in a Turkish bath. It's too darn hot! -- FClef (Talk) 23:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I am sweating too. The additions are excellent. Perhaps an extra sentence or two in the lead is required? -- ALoan (Talk) 09:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
you're right; that had occurred to me too. I shall work on it pronto. -- FClef (Talk) 12:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 24 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Chunee, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Great article! I used a cartoon image submitted by Phaedriel as the DYK picture -- Samir धर्म 13:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] And Clara too

Updated DYK query On 25 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Clara the rhinoceros, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

-- Samir धर्म 00:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Your abhorrent bigotry regarding notable hippopotami is becoming all too apparent, ALoan. (Great work.) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. All in good time. The history of the humble hippopotamus in Europe is even more limited that that of the noble rhino - the first one to arrive in the UK (also the first in Europe since Roman times) was Obaysch, who came to London Zoo in 1850.[7][8][9] He inspired the hippopotamus polka before expiring in 1878...[10] I feel an article coming on.
Feel free to suggest other charismatic megafauna that need articles. Notably, we are still missing Suleiman the elephant -- ALoan (Talk) 15:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
When will the conspicuous absence of Exploding rhinoceros in Category:Exploding animals be remedied? up+l+and 17:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Charismatic megafauna, what a great term. German has an article on Zarafa the giraffe that we apparently are sadly lacking. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
As far as I am aware, none of these magnificent beasts have exploded.
Zarafa had an AFD for a "groupware and calendaring server", and then a copyvio for the giraffe. She was apparently the first in Europe for 3 centuries, and had to walk from Marseilles to Paris. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Right, I have done the hippo and the giraffe, m'kay?

(Now, does anyone else think that "preyed on" sounds more POV than "threatend"?) -- ALoan (Talk) 21:22, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

O M G

Zafara was one of three giraffes! One was sent to London, where George IV became besotted by his "cameleopard"; the other went to Austria, where it inspired a piano and Giraffeln pastries! And one was sent to Lorenzo de' Medici in 1486! Oh, I must do the Medici Giraffe! -- ALoan (Talk) 14:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Your edit summary had me worried about the final fate of Zarafa for a second there :-) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 14:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paris moves.

Although it is fine to block the page, I suggest you read through the talk page before coming to any final decision. Although some would like to pretend otherwise, Paris is very unlike other agglomerations, and I don't think it a very likely idea to try to bend reality to a "greater scheme" that doesn't at all exist for anyone in the country spoken of. 70% of the article content is not in Paris, and there are Wiki naming conventions to consider for reasons of referencability - much of the contents of this article you will never find in any reference under the heading "Paris", unless of course this silliness goes on so long that Paris annexes the Île-de-France first. Apologies for my terseness, but I would not waste my time were I not certain of what I speak, and it is opinion and pigheadedness that is winning out here, not fact. THEPROMENADER 14:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

PS: The motion to move to "Paris region" was defeated, but the counter-proposition to move to the Wiki-correct "Île-de-France" won, albeit by a narrow margin. I left that one for seven days instead of the usual five for additional votes, and even did the rounds to garner more participation beforehand. This is supposed to be about fact before anything, an I had hoped that by opening a WP:RM that the fact of the matter would emerge - it did, as you can well see by the talk page. Since 70% of the article is not at all "in Paris" the next official administrative step up is the Île-de-France. The French version of the same article is titled "in Île-de-France", and this is not for nothing - it is not for vanity that I promote this renaming. Sorry for the move-revert mess, but sole opposing party has a long history of 'editing' this way - even in lack of reference. Excuse me but I'm sure you can understand my (temporary) frustration. THEPROMENADER 14:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the messages, and my apologies for the rather premptory protection, but I was alarmed to see the page move three times in a short period of time. I have not reached a final conclusion, but 2:1 does not look much like consensus to me. Hopefully a little more time will allow more people to express their opinions so a broader consensus can emerge. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
No apology needed - I understand completely. It's not the block that bothered me, but it was your seeming at-a-glance understanding of the problem - I am concerned about the final outcome, that's all. Fact aside, there is only one opposing the move and (always) reverting - and, as you may have guessed, this argument goes beyond this page. Sorry for my seeming vehemence but being a simple observer of largesse taken with the ignorance of others seems quite against the very reason I contribute to wiki. You'll notice that only one other contributor to the talk page in question speaks of naming conventions and fact - "sounds good" is neither. Anyhow I am still a bit steamed so time to chill. Cheers. THEPROMENADER 15:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
PS: Finally, the calvary. Another contributor, a local, has just left a word on the matter on the "tallest buildings" page - perhaps you can glean something more from that than my rambling. It's the reverting that blows this all out of proportion. Sorry for the mess. THEPROMENADER 15:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 26 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Vall de Boí, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Syrthiss 14:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can you have a look at this?

User:Captain scarlet, who has so far always seconded User:ThePromenader (read: User talk:Captain scarlet#Son of "Tallest structures"), hid the list of skyscrapers from List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris. What's the point of the article if the list is hidden? I restablished the list. More disturbing still, the same Captain scarlet has transformed List of tallest buildings and structures in Île-de-France, which was so far a redirect, into an independent article by starting a stub there. That sort of weasely behavior is quite disturbing. Is that how Wikipedia is supposed to work? Hardouin 16:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Just noticed Captain scarlet hid the list of skyscrapers again. Can you do something about it? You'll also be happy to hear that you've been called a "short sighted admin" by the same Captain scarlet ([11]). What a day, isn't it? Hardouin 16:11, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Captain scarlet has now removed the list of skyscrapers altogether from the article and pasted it at List of tallest buildings and structures in Île-de-France (which was previously only a redirect), leaving List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris as a rump article. Hardouin 16:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes I did and I stand by it, and my changes, forced upon by the remove. the content is now (at 17:25 GMT) sorted in its appropriate pages. You continued narrow minded, stubborn, unsourced, unverified and opiniated changes will always be changed as they are challenged by the opposite, precise and correct edits which you lack when confronting other wikipedians. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 16:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The title of the article is undeniably wrong, and it will change when all parties agree to rely on reference for their reasoning. In the meantime, even though User:Hardouin's claims that the article "in Paris" name is correct is disproven by reality and all references exisiting, this in being unable or unwilling to provide even one reference supporting this claim, he reverts outright any attempt at correction. This is more than maddening for some as I'm sure you can understand. THEPROMENADER 09:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John Brooke-Little

--Forlornandshorn 16:18, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buckingham Palace lead

Following yr suggestion, I have added as little as poss. to the lead (I don't know the length limit of lead for FA status) and hope this meets with your approval. I can't thank you enough for all the advice you've given on footnotes, references, and so on. You can see it bearing fruit here. -- FClef (Talk) 14:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 27 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Hansken, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

They had Hippos in England in prehistoric times? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

See hippopotamus - "Before the last Ice Age, the hippo was wide-spread in North Africa and Europe". And this - "Some of the first things that Mesolithic Britons did, were to wipe out the lion, the elephant, and the hippopotamus, and to domesticate the dog." And this - "In the caves at this spot [in Derbyshire] men cooked and ate locally caught hippopotamus and rhinoceros, with the remains being eaten by hyenas" -- ALoan (Talk) 15:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Madness! I'm a little suprised lions didn't last longer, so firm are they planted in English mythology (unlike the hippo in my conception at least). I'm also really surprised and a bit sad to learn that hippos are no longer found in Egypt. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:38, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zarafa

Updated DYK query On 28 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Zarafa, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

A brilliant article on a brilliant giraffe. -- Samir धर्म 20:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Obaysch photo?

Is there any reason not to upload [12]? It says the photographer is this fellow, expired 1887. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:03, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I really have no idea - I try to let other people decide these complicated copyright issues (I worry too much that the copyright legislation in the UK bears little resemblance to that in the US). -- ALoan (Talk) 23:14, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
All right. I'll do it. If Her Majesty's Royal Copyright police come after me for getting it wrong, it's on my head. :-) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 29 July 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Obaysch, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

What an extraordinary hippopotamus. How did you acquire your knowledge of historic animals? -- Samir धर्म 23:30, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Google and insatiable curiosity. I have an elephant and a giraffe lined up, but then I am open to offers :) -- ALoan (Talk) 23:35, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caius coat of arms

Here's one of the coats of arms you requested at WP:RI. I couldn't find any decent-sized originals, so there are probably a few errors in the details. Let me know if you find any. -- Sakurambo 桜ん坊 19:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks. If I may nit-pick, the arms of Gonville and Caius College are:
"Argent, on a chevron between two couple closes indented sable three escallops or [for Gonville] impaling, Or semy of flowers gentle, in the middle of the chief a sengrene resting upon the heads of two serpents in pale, their tails knit together, all in proper colour, resting upon a square marble stone vert, between their breasts a book sable garnished gules, buckles or [for Caius]; all within a bordure compony argent and sable."[13]
(That external link would also be helpful if you are thinking of creating any of the other arms that I requested.)
The Gonville side is fine; on the Caius side: (i) the "flowers gentle" are apparently meant to be Amaranthus melancholicus, a species amaranth which seems to be the same as Amaranthus tricolor (despite what the other images show! And, unhelpfully, I also think the illustration in our article shows Amaranthus caudatus, Love-lies-bleeding, instead); (ii) I am not sure that your "sengrene" is quite right either - you have drawn something like a daisy, but it should apparently be a green houseleek, Sempervivum tectorum (John Caius was a physician, and the houseleek has medicinal qualities); (iii) the tails of the "serpents" are tied together with string, not interlooped (see this); (iv) the "vert" slab of marble could be a touch greener (it looks a bit blue to me); (v) the book is actually meant to be sable (black), with red bands and gold clasps, not red furnished gold.
If you can fix these, that would be excellent. But it is already a top job. Thanks again. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Have you considered asking User:Lupin? He's apparently the one who redrew most of theotehr shields. Circeus 00:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I've made a few changes. If you reload the image you should be able to see them. -- Sakurambo 桜ん坊 10:53, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Now that is service. :) Thanks - excellent. There will probably be complaints, because the semy is different to the college's standard version at their website (http://www.cai.cam.ac.uk/) which looks to me more like a semy of white flowers (lilies?) but this looks more like the original. My only comment now is that the "flowers gentle" look a bit too much like red roses, and don't have enough green, but they will do. Thanks again. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I have replaced the image at Amaranthus tricolor with a better example (the other was clearly Amaranthus caudatus). -- ALoan (Talk) 11:28, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
No problem :-) I'll fiddle with the design later when I have some free time. The escallops still look rather like rubber gloves, so I'll work on those too. Incidentally, do you know what the copyright situation would be with the Robinson college arms? Obviously it isn't all that old, so I assume I'd be infringing someone's copyright if I traced in the Pegasus image from the image we're using at the moment. Is there a royalty-free alternative somewhere? -- Sakurambo 桜ん坊 12:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Now I look more closely, I see what you mean about rubber gloves :)
Robinson College is "Azure, in base two bars wavy argent over all a Pegasus rampant or gorged with a crown rayonny gules."[14] For the pegasus, would anything at commons:Pegasus help? -- ALoan (Talk) 12:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject_Cricket/Quiz

Your turn to post a question, if you don't do it soon you'll lose your turn --Bedders 08:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, thanks. Done. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
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