Talk:Alex Jones (radio)

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Archives
Archive 1 (March 2004 to July 2006)

Contents 1 Jones's Education 2 NPOV 3 Jones on homosexuality 4 Jones On The Bible 5 Tone 6 Predictions 7 Paragraph Cleanup 8 Split 9 Category 10 Typos 10.1 Related discussion 11 Cleanup 12 Spellcheck, for the love of *insert your favorite deity here* 13 Muse 14 Gullible Simpletons 15 Consolidate articles on movies into this article 16 Balance 17 Notability 18 Xenophobia 19 "One World Order" 20 YouTube links 21 German-Jewish-American deletion 22 "Investigative Journalist" tag should be removed. 23 Move this page to Alex Jones? 24 To my knowledge, Alex Jones did not retract his own prediction of more terror attacks before the end of 2006 25 Regarding Alex Jones ethnicity and his wife. 26 Changed Conspiracy Theorist to Realist 27 Since when did Raw Story become the authority on who is a conspiracy theorist 28 COI 29 POV 30 Requested move 30.1 Survey 30.1.1 Survey - in support of the move 30.1.2 Survey - in opposition to the move 30.2 Discussion 31 Daily Vandalism 32 "Conspiracy Theorist"? 33 Quotes section needs work. 34 Trivia????? 35 Views

[edit] Jones's Education

The biographical info on Jones in this article has a lack of info about his life before his radio shows in the mid '90s. Is there any information about where he graduated from high school, and if he went to college?

[edit] NPOV

This entire article needs NPOV cleanup. There is absolutely no material about refutations of Jones' ideas. Additionally the whole thing reads rather like PR. I have removed the term "Conspiracy Realist" from the page because it is an inherently POV waesel word term. Jones deserves a comprehensive fair article, what we have is far from that.

I disagree entirely. If anything, this is propaganda against Alex Jones. I have very little bias with regards to this, I just googled to find out who he was. I can see how he might be seen as a bit over the top, but undeniably he is also a critical journalist who brings out some valid points. Claiming that this is propaganda FOR Alex Jones is completely skewed, and takes the discussion off track. My impression reading this article was that the authors were desperate to make him look like a looney, especially with the first section ("Views") and the very poor descriptions of his filmography, which I believe is what most people will look at. 84.210.30.185 02:39, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

BTW, the people on this page calling for more criticism of Alex Jones should start signing.... 84.210.30.185 02:41, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jones on homosexuality

Are there any concrete refs on Alex's take on homosexuality? (I'm not saying he's gay so relax.) Listening to his show some of his guests (like Alan Watt) have implied homosexuality is being promoted by the NWO as a way to bring down society. But searching around I haven't found any "Alex Jones: homosexuals are evil." articles. (The fact that Alex is a Christian doesn't necessarily mean he is anti-gay.) --Anonymous Coward

Does it really matter? I've never once heard Jones refer to gays, except in the context of hypocritical 'Christian Conservative' politicians engaging in gay acts.--Baltech22 02:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I've never seen any references tying into this. rootology (T) 03:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Jones has said several times on his radio show that while he morally opposes homosexuality due to his religious persuasion, he very strongly supports equal rights for homosexuals due to his libertarian political beliefs.Vulcanhacker

[edit] Jones On The Bible

Jones often claims that the Bible is "all about" standing up against evil and corruption. On the June 5, 2006 Broadcast of his show, a caller challenged this claim, citing Matthew 5:39, and asked Jones "was Jesus lying in that verse" (referring to Matthew 5:39 of the Bible), to which Jones replied "Yeah!" Jones went on to claim that Jesus "beat" the money changers and "smashed their heads." He went on to call Christians who don't resist corruption and tyranny "scum" and said they would all "burn in Hell". On the October 16, 2006 broadcast of his show, Jones responded to the same caller's implication that David's submission to Saul despite Saul's repeated attempts to have David killed disproved his claim about the Bible by saying, among other things, "God cursed Israel with a king because they asked Him for one."

The archives at GCN live provide access to all previous broadcasts of "The Alex Jones Show". Anyone can pay a nominal fee to access them and listen to the shows themselves for verification of the content. I include this because I feel that Jones misrepresents the Bible to justify his "infowar". No matter how worthy his cause is, I feel this is very wrong to do.

Jesus never lied. Come on, its the same guy who claims the government caused 9/11. 66.218.13.249

This is misinterpretation. I even remember hearing this... He said 'yeah' in a sense 'yeah and moon is a blue cheese', or 'yeah, thats nice opinion of yours, good bye'. If this is the best 'Bible' attack on Jones you can bring on, you are pretty weak. Come on, stop using text out of context. Do you really have to lie to make him look bad?

TRee Hugger- WTF? A large part of the old testament was about God telling prophets to go against the Machine or fight the man. Prophets criticise unjust kings commonly. While the rest of the old testament is about God telling the Isrealites they are the chosen ones and can run amok slaughtering anyone they choose and stealing their land.

---

Jones is right on alot he says about the Bible. Yes, God does require rulers (and everyone else for that matter) to be just and God requires people that have the wherewithal to do so, to stand up for the oppressed, weak, helpless, and poor. I am constantly amazed at how many silly jackasses there are out there that have no knowledge of the God of the Bible. - NoSnooz

[edit] Tone

The tone of this article is silly and unencyclopedic imho...will fix it up a bit. Paul 15:21, 17 August 2006 (UTC) I take it back, that was mostly due to vandalism by 70.247.106.166. Paul 15:26, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Predictions

Since Jones is cited as "predicting" 9/11, why not throw all his predictions in there.

• "This is only the beginning. In the next few years, in this second phase--the period of escalating violence. They're gonna allow limited nuclear exchanges." "There's going to be more. This is only the kickoff." (9/13/01)

• Depleted Uranium dont count?

• • Depleted Uranium is "waste" from nuclear material. It has no nuclear use other than being low-level nuclear waste. It's not even really useful for dirty bombs. Robbh66 05:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• "Within 2 years I'm predicting...that you're going to see a suitcase nuke in this country. You're probably going to see a release in a few years of something communicable. & I am predicting that you will see a lot of conventional bombings...in the next year or so." (10/18/01)

• more Antrax anyone? Take the chip or else!

• • Perhaps you mean Anthrax? Anyways, the suitcase nuke prediction is wrong and the Anthrax prediction was made a month after Anthrax had already hit numerous places. Robbh66 05:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• "I'm telling you now...there's a very good chance there gonna blow something up overseas or here." "The evidence is all tilting toward...blowing up a building. They're really setting us up for a smallpox attack." Chemical attacks are "almost a guarantee in the next six months or so." (9/26/02)

Bali Bombings? Ex-primeminister said western intel tied to it.

Saying "they're going to blow something up overseas or here" is not a prediction- it's a given. It's been happening for years and it will continue to happen for years. He was dead wrong on the smallpox. Robbh66 05:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• "They're preparing for new terrorist attacks that are much larger. & they're planning to bring in foreign armies....The U.S. government is going to engage in large terrorist attacks domestically & probably internationally...They may kill millions of Americans." There was going to be a nuclear release in Iraq, an international depression, formation of a world government, probably a nuclear release in Iraq, an international depression, a world government formed. Also, "They may kill millions of Americans." (7/11/02)

• This quote can't be word for word.

• They're going to blow more stuff up. (4/13/04)

7/7 49 dead can't be that? Tavistock Institute thanks you for your help.

Like I said above, this was not a prediction- it was a given. Its happened for years and will continue for years. Robbh66 05:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• "I predict Arnold is gonna save children at a school shooting, or there'll be some type of bombing, & he will land by helicopter & run in & direct things. I predict it....I see it all aligning. I see it all coming together. I see their plan, clear as day....He'll fly in & things will be burninig & he'll run into it & save someone." [circa March of 2005. Kinda proves Alex is living a fantasy, doesn't it?]

• • Lenina Huxley said it was in the Swatzinegger Presidential Library!Demolition Man

• Alex also said (several times) they were going to roll out Osama bin Laden "on ice" before the 2004 election.

• citing media reports on remarks made about his head being frozen (Tim Osman/bin ladin that is)

from [1].

Jones has also predicted that WW3 will begin before the Elections in November. Now, I bring all this up because if the article is crediting him with a successful prediction of 9/11, shouldn’t that be in the context of one lucky guess in the midst of dozens of other bogus predictions? Torturous Devastating Cudgel 15:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

He puts those among his non-official views, he has done that a lot of times. But he has never called any of those fears by any "operation" name, he only did it pre-9/11. And of course, now. Other than that, he sometimes will go into "daydream" mode. Remeber that he is a talk show host also, and its easy to find quotes on things he have said during the year. But he has never raised the alarm like this or the previous one. --Striver 20:39, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Isn't that pretty much a cop-out? A 'non-official' view is... I don't even know what the hell that is? How can you hold a view, but not officially hold it? Is that like the opposite of what Bush is doing with gay marriage? It's rather insincere, isn't it? To say a lot of stuff that you basically pull out of your ass, then only stand by the really shrill ones that you feel really strongly about, and disavow the others? --baltech22 18:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

What a complete cop-out. You can't have a non official view that you use for all of your predictions depending on whether or not it suits you. If he makes the decision to broadcast something over public airwaves than it is his official view. He cannot go back and say "oh, that was unoffical so it doesn't count!" Robbh66 05:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

He does say he is speculating on many occasions, guessing, theorising, based on many collections of supposedly credible media outlets reports that may get sanitised later or be archived on the sites.

When Alex makes predictions, I say consider them more like scenarios to ponder. No individual in our country has a more scrutinizing eye on what's going on in the world than Alex. Of course, he is not going to call a majority of events right. Who could? I only know, and we all do if we're honest, the way history is playing out, we are in perilous times now. More than our liberties are at stake; our lives, as well. --WikipediaBG 17:35, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paragraph Cleanup

This paragraph: "He stats that he has received multiple death-threats over due advocating his views, one time being beaten down by four persons. He states that he had received a death-threat as late as 2006-08-16, and that he has made himself ready for being killed, something he views is likely to happen if he succeeds in receiving much more attention. He further has said that he has a "life ensuarence"."

Has numerous spelling and gramatical errors, and needs to be cleaned up in general. I don't have time to listen to the talkshow segment provided as a source at this present time, but if no one else fixes it then I'll do it in a few days. Kytok 04:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Split

This page is 35 kilobytes long. This may be longer than is preferable; see article size.

And i am still expanding it. --Striver 01:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Alex,

I am often amazed/baffled by your extraordinary ability to recall facts and dates.

I have recently noticed that there seem to be a group of people who are "helped," cognitively, in some fashion, reffered to as "Synthetic Telepathy"

I deal with these people as well. It seems they want me crazy or dead ! Of course, diagnosed or reffered to as -Schizophrenia-

I tell ya, the fu*$ing mind rape is wonderful..DUDE!

Really Alex...these ARE the THOUGHT POLICE--MY GOD!

Don't be THIS MAN. Don't you fu&%ing say you are one of these guys. People BELIEVE in you, Understand?

Thoughts/comments...etc ? Not gonna let you go until you have acknowledged. THE TRUTH

The above seems to be either someone with mental issues or more likely a troll. Is it against wikipedia "rules" to remove something like this from the talk page? 84.210.30.185 03:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category

Did you people miss the sign at the top? It states that ALL negative text MUST be sourced to somebody ELSE, or it must be AGRESIVLY DELETED, and its DOES NOT COUNT towards the 3rr. Wikipedia CAN NOT label anybody with a pejorative category per POLICY. I am for the FOURTH TIME reverting it per WP:BLP and the template at the top. --Striver 21:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

• It's somewhat misleading to point out that "ALL negative text MUST be sourced to somebody ELSE, or it must be AGRESIVLY DELETED" This is entirely true, however, you should of pointed out that it is actually ALL controversial claims. That means positive too for those of you who are fans. Robbh66 05:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
• A large amount of the content of the article describes various conspiracies which the subject alledges have occured (eg: theories). How is he NOT a conspiracy theorist? Just because some people consider "conspiracy theorist" to mean the same thing as "crackpot" doesn't mean that it's true. This person is clearly a "conspiracy theorist". --Versageek 21:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

• Conspiracies do not 'occur', they are being perpetrated. 195.64.95.116 22:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• There is no lack of sources which call Jones a "conspiracy theorist". [2][3][4][5][6] Furthermore, if he is not a conspiracy theorist then we should remove references to him from articles about conspiracy theories, such as 9/11 conspiracy theories. -Will Beback 21:22, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

• Dude's a very prominant theorist of conspiracies. What's the point of having a category for conspiracy theorists if the prominant one's aren't in it? This is a POV push.--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

• • Which should end the discussion on whether or not to label him a conspiracy theorist. You can't put him in prominent conspiracy theorists categories when it suits you, but not have it in the article when it puts him in a negative light. This is a pretty simple and straightforward concept. Robbh66 05:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

We should not have a pejorative category such as "conspiracy theorists". Yes, people call him a conspiracy theorist, but wikiepdia will not do it per policy: The responsibility for justifying controversial claims in Wikipedia, of all kinds, but especially for living people's bios, rests firmly on the shoulders of the person making the claim..

"conspiracy theorists" is a pejorative term. And wikipedia will not call him that. But wikipedia will report that SPECIFIC people call him that. Ie, the intro can state "X, Y and Z view Alex Jones as a CT", but it will NOT state "AJ is a CT". Puting him in the category is equal to embracing those peoples view, and wikipedia WILL AGRESIVLY remove that PER POLICY. --Striver 00:35, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

It's sourced. The so-called "pejorative term" is more than acceptable. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. There's really not any dispute here over whether or not Jones is a conspiracy theorist, because he is; the term "conspiracy theorist" may be somewhat perjorative, but he does indeed theorize about conspiracies. BarrettBrown 01:21, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Using the meaning of "conspiracy" and "theory" to conclude that it is not a pejorative label is... not honest. Its is sources that people lables him as such, but wikipedia WILL NOT PER POLICY endorse that pejorative labeling. --Striver 11:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Numerous sources, including at least one posted on Jones' own site, refer to him as a "conspiracy theorist". It is not against Wikipedia policy to use the term. If you think that it is then please post a reference to the policy. Simply repeating an opinion in caps does not make it more persuasive. -Will Beback 11:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

The source on his page is a mere copy paste of some other source, he does that often and it does not imply enorsment, as he also does that with people holding the opposite view. --Striver 00:33, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you read my post again, Striver. I wrote that the term "may be somewhat perjorative." How you get from that that I'm trying to "conclude that it is not a perjorative label" is beyond me. 70.112.97.118 15:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I sugest you read the bolded "all kinds" a bit above.--Striver 00:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Obviously, Wikipedia will use the label "conspiracy theorists", because we have a category for them.--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Put dead people on that pejorative labeled category, they can not sue wikipedia.--Striver 00:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

(Undent) I think it's quite fair to use the "conspiracy theorist" category here; if Jones isn't one, then there aren't any. Moreover, note that he is listed on Conspiracy theory.

Being a conspiracy theorist is a pov statment, nobody will address themselves with a pejorative label. Even if they did that ones, it would not be enough, i say once "i am an ashole", you dont get to put on my biography "Striver, wikipedian and an ashole". Maybe if you could find multiple references of him refering to himself as a conspiracy theorist, then it would be valid.--Striver 00:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, fine, that might be using Wikipedia to document Wikipedia. But simply read the first few paragraphs under "Views". Assuming that this is an accurate description of Jones' beliefs, then this much is true: he claims that a secret, powerful group controls banking and the media and is manipulating public opinion to destroy, or weaken, US sovereignity. What about that is not conspiracy theory? Deville (Talk) 22:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

The term "conspiracy theory" has a clear pejorative conotation in the english language. Even if factualy correct, the pejorative conotation is enough for not endorsing it. And then, Alex does not view his statments as "Theories", he belives them to be factual. A "conspiracy theory" is usualy meant to mean STRONGLY unlickely theory, such as Bush being a lizard-man. Clearly, Jones does not view that his theories are such. --Striver 00:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Then should we removes mentions of Jones from articles about conspiracy theories? If he's not a conspiracy theorist then he isn't relevant. More seriously, there is no rule against using pejorative terms for people, so long as they are properly sourced. Do you have a source for him saying he does not consider himself a conspiracy theorist? -Will Beback 00:56, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

The text at the TOP of this page:

"This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons policy as it directly concerns one or more living people. Poorly sourced, potentially libellous material must be removed immediately. The three-revert rule does not apply to such removals."

Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons:

"These principles also apply to biographical material about living persons in other articles.", "The responsibility for justifying controversial claims in Wikipedia, of all kinds, but especially for living people's bios, rests firmly on the shoulders of the person making the claim."

1. Removed immediately
2. Three-revert rule does not apply
3. Includes other articles
4. Of all kinds
5. Firmly on the shoulders of the person making the claim

There is no debate on this issue. None, its an absolut and firm policy:

"Information available solely on partisan websites or in obscure newspapers should be handled with caution, and, if derogatory, should not be used at all."

Basicly: Alex Jones does not reffer to himslef with the pejorative "Conspiracy theorist" term, and has not been sentenced as one in a court of law, hence, it is controversial, disputed and pejorative term that will not be applied to him.

The term is pejorative in the sense that it labels him a nut-case, as person that belives in non-sense. Wikipedia will not endorse that. However, Wikipedia can describe his views as "controversial", describe him as a part of the "9/11 Truth Movement" or just plainly state that "Jones belives x".

And yes, this extends to other articles as well, per above. I suggest you creat a non-pejorative article to inlude him in. --Striver 13:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

What you can do, is to cite in the "views" section some specific people who call him a conspiracy theorist. That is legitimate and welcomed. --Striver 13:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

How about "conspiracy analyst" instead? --RevWaldo 16:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

How about "journalist" and "radio and television personality?" I can accept "alternative journalist." GeorgeC 07:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

All of GeorgeC's suggestions are acceptable by me. --Striver 07:53, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, perhaps "conspiracy theorist" should be replaced with "investigative journalist." Somewhere it could be mentions that his critics consider him to be a "conspiracy theorist." This would maintain neutrality. Do I have permission to make the edit?-- Mr. Edit 11:00PM EST 26 September 2006

As stated before, you would have to name specific sources, i.e. person x and person y call him a conspiracy theorist, not just 'critics'.

It's interesting how people argue that Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist because he theorises on conspiracies, yet these same people would go berserk if someone were to change the page on 9/11 to say that the official story on what happened is nothing more than a conspiracy theory in itself, because it is a theory about a conspiracy and is not fact. Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist, however I would resist the use of such a POV term on Wikipedia unless people who promote the official theory are counted as such also. Coconuteire 19:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

If you can't prove it, it's a theory, hence "conspiraacy theorist". Jones has never submitted any of his ideas to be vetted by an impartial third party. If he does, and they prove viable, then he ceases to be a conspiracy theorist and becomes a sucessful social activist. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.193.148 (talk) 00:52, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

I agree, he has theories, and the same must be said for the official stories behind countless attacks, incl. 9/11 and 7/7, which have yet to be proven also. Coconuteire 19:21, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Typos

the article is still locked so i can't edit it, but there are multiple typos on his "Opposes" and "Supports" sections under more than one entry.

[edit] Related discussion

Is currently ongoing at the actual policy page, here, for those interested. rootology (T) 03:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Reuters calls him a conspiracy theorist here: [7]. Not a dog 16:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

No it did'nt. Give me the quote. --Striver 07:31, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

"Conspiracy theorists" were mentioned in the title of the piece, but only implied that Alex Jones was a conspiracy theorist. GeorgeC 20:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

That's right, and implied is not good enough. --Striver 00:16, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Reuters is reportedly owned by a Bilderberg member. GeorgeC 05:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

The article needs some copyediting, particularly moving punctuation in front of references. It can't be done right now because the article is protected. --Anchoress 05:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I could also do without the year-by-year biographical data. Just hit the key events. I don't think the tables are necessary either. GeorgeC 20:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Then split them out to a new article and make a summary. that is how wikipedia works. --Striver 22:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

It can also do without a 3 paragraph blockquote. (Greg Palast's views). --Mmx1 04:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

yes, this extensive quote should be removed as generally unencyclopedic (see WP:QUOTE for starters) -- ZimZalaBim (talk) 21:00, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Striver, like I said the article is protected. None of us can do any of these edits, so it's kinda useless to tell us to. Anchoress 05:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spellcheck, for the love of *insert your favorite deity here*

I'm not here to comment on the article itself, but rather on its presentation. There are numerous glaring spelling errors in the text, which make the article look more amateurish than controversial. If it's gonna be locked for the time being, could someone with admin powers step in and do a quick cleanup? I'll give you candy. --RicardoC 10:01, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muse

Why was the info about Muse supporting Terrorstorm removed?

Relevance would be my guess.--71.233.121.48 18:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

It would be more relevant on the pages about Muse and Terrorstorm, just not on Alex Jones' page. Coconuteire 19:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gullible Simpletons

Alex's conspiracy followers are known as the Gullible Simpletons. Shouldn't this be in this article?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.131.144.26 (talk • contribs) .

Our policy requires that I ask for a citation for that. Tom Harrison ^Talk 02:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I suppose "Gullible Simpletons" actually believe that the "Northwoods Document" was declassified to destabilise 'merica; I further suppose that the survivers of the USS Liberty in 1967 actually think that the Israeli's accidently attacked with unmarked jets and torpedo boats while jamming 'merican frequencies and LBJ called back the planes TWICE because it was good fer 'merica. Then thair is the "Lavon Affair", Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonken, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the Georgia guidestones, Texas Monthy Magazine's BumSteer award to the FBI for creating a creaton clan group to blow up a refinery ( as thay was invested in gasoline futures?) but the baffons couldnt set off the bomb the agents built for them; and about 20 other factual events that I lernt 'bout from listening to right wing gun nut whako antigovernment shortwave radio that wernt taught in skool nor the lamestream media that is taught in jernalizm skool to write to a jethro (clampit ) 6th grade level.

I "listen" to( but am not a "follower" of) Jones on many occassions and his preacher rants and suppositions about the "globalist plans" are not that entertaining to me. THE interviews and information research points are what I have always found to be the crown jewels of 'niche' radio on WWCR WWRB and the likes of Chuck Harder and his "For the People" organisation that was destroyed by the IRS perhaps due to "Pat Chote's" run with Ross Perot as VP. Many conspiracy's aren't simple premis but are SUPPORTED BY MUCH RESEARCH AND TRIPS TO THE LAW LIBRARY AND RARE BOOK STORES ET CETERA AD NAUSIUM.

Just because you are constantly under pavlovian conditioning and social engineering to dumb you down it is no excuse for this level of selective ignorance and bigotry and predjudice without exaustive research slapping the label and derogatory use of "conspiracy theorist" Posted by annon fed up with the real simpletons thotcriminal...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.209.140.21 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Consolidate articles on movies into this article

It seems to me that sections of the now-deleted articles on the Jones' movies need to be readded to this page, to establish his notability. I would say no more than two or three paragraphs per movie, to summarize Jones's key theses. Calwatch 04:33, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Most of his "movies" are chopped and pasted home movies with continuity problems and really nice intros followed by a introduction rant that is usually too long. I have just about all of them up to the martial law including the "emergency" releases. His Blairwitch style on Bohemian Grove was above average. But his 'movies' as movies go, are not that critially aclaimed from a production value or videography perspective. If you want to establish notability the videos arent the direction to go. Anyone doing research on Jones will find the videos easy enough. I have researched most of the videos subjects claims and find they are verifiable and worthy of further study and wariness. Wikipedia is culturally biased as a web community against reform efforts of folks like jones and there are plenty of troll like editors to censor your best efforts to NPOV and source your postings. They selectively enforce the "rules" from my experience. Efforts for most are best spent elsewhere at somepoint you have to conclude. Waste all the time you want.

[edit] Balance

Newcomer here...so don't bite. This article has no opposing view points or criticisms of Alex Jones. This is the first I've read of him but I doubt that a controversial figure such as this is without criticism.

We need to put together a consensus of the kind of criticisms he is subject to. The problem is, we can't seem to arrive at one, and a lot of the harsher criticisms leveled at Jones come from sources who are 'crazier' than he is often accused of being. I will say that the most significant criticisms of Jones that seem to emerge repeatedly are that:

a) He takes some of his information from dubious sources [publications and websites on the fringe right and fringe left, as well as books written from a conspiratorial perspective similar to his own on subjects that lack a great deal of mainstream/reliable scholarship].

b) When the facts he cites are solid, the conclusions he draws do not necessarily follow from those facts.

Jones seems to have critics and enemies on all corners of the spectrum. In the 2 months or so that I've been following and reading about him, I've seen him referred to as a 'conspiracy nut', 'government disinfo agent', 'anti-semite', 'crypto-zionist', 'hatemonger', 'pacifist', 'gullible idiot', 'clever snake oil salesman', 'left wing lunatic', 'right wing lunatic', 'friend of David Icke', 'critic of David Icke', 'Bullhorning jackass' and 'Rush Limbaugh wannabe'... So yah, he must be doing something right. --baltech22 18:34, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

hahahaha, thanks for this compilation of "criticisms"! Very amusing (as well as tragic, ofcourse) — Xiutwel (talk) 18:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notability

Proposal
Some articles on productions by Jones have been deleted in September 2006. Perhaps these could be included sort of as an appendix in this article? This could perhaps satisfy the "unnotability"-camp, by not having too many articles about a single "Idiot", while at the same time providing the info for those who need it. — Xiutwel (talk) 18:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

We already list his videos. What were you thinking of adding? Tom Harrison ^Talk 18:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

The entire deleted articles TerrorStorm and 9-11: The Road to Tyranny (don't know whether more Alex Jones related articles were deleted). — Xiutwel (talk) 19:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I also noticed this. It seems very odd, given TerrorStorm's success and high visibility on Google. It occurs to me that whoever pulled the articles is, ironically, helping lend credence to the belief of Alex Jones and his adherents that he is being conspired against. --- Buddy-Rey

Somebody put those back in. This whole article is rediculous. Looks like it was just meant to make this guy look bad. I just saw "Terrorstorm", and although this guy sadly goes over the top a few times, it was teeming with very interesting information, which seems accurate. This article does nothing to clarify matters though. I was looking for real info, and this article is pretty much a disgrace. I think there should be a tag about the neutrality of this article being disputed on this page. 84.210.30.185 02:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Xenophobia

I would like to encourage editors to address Alex Jones' disturbing xenophobia if they have sources available. There were a couple of articles I came across sometime ago that did analyse xenophobic and potentially racist comments made by Jones, but I have to sort through my bookmarks to find them again. I'll do my best. VivaRiva 02:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I predict that these will all be with regard to Latin American illegal aliens...--Baltech22 01:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Why do you say that? VivaRiva 21:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll hold off explaining until you make your case.--Baltech22 23:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Viva, if you provide the citations, and the sources are reliable (i.e. mainstream media), I will work the material into the article. Morton devonshire 00:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Morton. I've been kind of busy lately but hopefully soon I'll have enough time to spare to find the articles in question. VivaRiva 06:09, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Surprise, Surprise.

Don't be too hasty about this. Context is extremely important when you're talking about labeling someone with a potentially pejorative tag. Talking negatively about someone and referring to him as a 'dual citizen' in the context of questioning his allegiances to the United States is different from simply stating that someone being a dual citizen is empirically negative.--Baltech22 00:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately you are incorrect. Jones has constantly referred to Arnold and other naturalized citizens as "foreigners." He intentionally misquotes U.S. law - instead of accurately saying that the law prevents "foreign-born" citizens from becoming President, he simply lumps all naturalized citizens with "foreigners" which obviously refers to non-citizens (and non-residents) and on top of that, refers to them as "foreign usurpers." That is really pathetic and it's a flagrantly cheap shot, to attack someone, a citizen of the United States of America, because they weren't born here. Simply put, he is a classic xenophobe. I'd like to know if he also considers "hyphenated" Americans (Italian-American, Polish-American, etc.) as "foreigners" and potential "foreign usurpers." VivaRiva 06:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, hold up there. Jones' whole agenda is in resisting the creation of a one-world government, and part and parcel with that is the resistance against the United States losing its sovereignty and voiding its constitution (i.e. as part of a Pan-American Union that's in the works). The law against foreign-born individuals becoming President is on the books specifically to prevent foreign agents from compromising U.S. sovereignty.

And furthermore, the term 'foreigner' might be semi-colloquial [or at least, not P.C.], but it's not intrinsically pejorative, I suggest you check out [[8]] before suggesting someone is xenophobic simply for using the term.

I should mention that I, myself, am a naturalized citizen and don't find the word at all offensive. --Baltech22 13:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I do not find Alex Jones to be racist. You speak about his apparent xenophobia as if it is a bad thing. It is perfectly natural for one to be protective of one's culture, identity and nation and to resist all attempts to usurp them by outsiders. His concern with Arnold Schwarzenegger's attempt to become US president is, in my opinion, entirely justified. If I were, heaven forbid, to move to the US and become a naturalised citizen, I would not find the term "foreigner" offensive whatsoever, because that's EXACTLY WHAT I AM TO THE AMERICANS AND VICE-VERSA! Coconuteire 19:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Alex Jones is not racist. Anyone who listens to his show will tell you as much. Why would he speak out about tuskegee or myrid other topics if he was racist?? - SeriousCat 10:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "One World Order"

I believe this to be a mistake. I checked the cited source and at no point does he refer to a "One World Order". I suggest someone changes it back to "New World Order". 80.171.52.53 15:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] YouTube links

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. ---J.S (t|c) 07:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Alex Jones said he put his videos on video.google.com himself to allow people to watch it. He even for noncomercial (educational) reasons encourages people to share the movies. Even if he does not, section 107 of copyright act should allow this. Its not violation of his copyright. (anon user)

Alex Jones' policy is that anyone can freely redistribute his videos as long as they are redistributed unedited and in their entirety. Coconuteire 19:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I can confirm this, Alex Jones has said as much on his show numerous times. - SeriousCat 10:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] German-Jewish-American deletion

I deleted the part where it claims that Alex Jones is of German-Jewish descent since he is not. He describes himself as a Christian and has never mentioned his descent.

Just to comment, one can be of German-Jewish descent and still be a Christian (conversion, took faith of one parent, etc). While any claim must be cited, there is no inherent contradiction that makes this prima facie false. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 21:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Investigative Journalist" tag should be removed.

I do not think he should be tagged as an investigative journalist. As someone who used to read and watch his stuff (I know better now), I have to say I have never come across any material of his that could be considered investigative journalism. Has he uncovered anything? Has he reported things that have gone unreported (and I mean anywhere, including some dude posting rants on the internet)? Has he ever broken any stories? If not, he is not an investigative journalist. Oh, and, no I am not a shill for the Bush administration. So, don't even go there. I'm a left-wing commie. I just don't like right-wingers on power trips ranting on the radio.Rlh 1984 01:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Mate, I'm a far lefty and I still consider AJ to count as an investigative journalist even though I haven't listened to him in a long time and probably won't again. IJs travel a lot, conduct interviews, break stories, expose crimes and attempt to put pieces of the puzzle together. Alex Jones does all of these things. Coconuteire 19:25, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Although I have moved away from the way that Alex Jones communicates his opinions and information, I would still disagree with you and say simply that a few of the things Alex has independently researched and looked into and reported were recognized as something he essentially "broke", according to lots of folks in the "alternative media". I'll leave it to others to list some specific examples, but to be honest, I disagree with your premise that someone needs to have their own "I'm the only one who discovered this" credit to deserve the I.J. label :)

The lead para states that he "questions the standard accounts of the September 11th terrorist attacks" and reading further on, it emerges that he promotes the notion that the US government was knowingly involved in this and other atrocities. That makes him a conspiracy theorist. --Pete 00:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

• Labelling anyone a "conspiracy theorist" is not very helpful, since some conspiracies actually exist, and others do not exist but are mere products of imagination. I believe wikipedia would be wise not to issue this label (also: WP:OR).

It is my honest opinion that Jones' work involves research and investigation in a manner very similar to that of a journalist. If his conclusions would be wrong, that would not alter that fact, therefore I think this label investigative journalist is helpful to the reader. — Xiutwel (talk) 14:46, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

He's a conspiracy theorist. If and when it is widely accepted that the US Government conspired in the S11 attacks, then maybe we can remove the "theorist" label. Until then, it's a good description. As for original research, just google "Alex Jones" and "conspiracy theorist" and you'll find any number of sources. --Pete 17:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Something should not be referred to as a theory simply because it has minority support. The official 9/11 story is a conspiracy theory. Please do not subjectively use the term to refer to critics of governments while supporting equally dubious claims by the same governments. Coconuteire 19:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Using your logic, nothing should be labeled conspiracy theory and that is just absurd. Perhaps we shouldn't label evolution as "theory" because other, mainly religious, theories have a minority support. Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorists, plain and simple. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.67.115.80 (talk) 04:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Video of the Creamation Of Care, and numerous other stories don't count? What about when he was live outside the Bilderburg group meetings? Or the evidence of the use of thermite to demolish the twin towers? I could go on forever... - SeriousCat 10:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move this page to Alex Jones?

It seems as if the other two Alex Joneses have less than 10 other articles that link to them and this accounting for 90% of all linked pages that has to do with an Alex Jones. I think that there shouldn't be the need for the (radio) disambiguation at all. --Zimbabweed 11:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To my knowledge, Alex Jones did not retract his own prediction of more terror attacks before the end of 2006

"However, it should be noted that Alex Jones later retracted those same statements on his radio show, claiming increased public awareness." There is no reference to this sentence. To my knowledge, Mr. Jones, still believes it is possible, that from his work and that of others in the 9/11 truth community, more government-sponsored terror attacks were called off or at least postponed. Lakeshorebaby 20:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC) 3:30 PM Feb 10, 2007

[edit] Regarding Alex Jones ethnicity and his wife.

I have heard he is German-Jewish. I have also heard his wife is Jewish. This would make for an interesting twist and as he does bash Israel alot on his radio show. Any information one way or the other? Manic Hispanic 00:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

You mean Israel as a political system, not a group of people. In that sense, why would it matter if his wife is Jewish? (Pwnage8 02:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Changed Conspiracy Theorist to Realist

It's not a theory if you have evidence. Alex Jones only makes allegations when he has evidence. He has always cited his sources which are always credible.

[edit] Since when did Raw Story become the authority on who is a conspiracy theorist

How dare you use that article to label Alex Jones an conspiracy theorist.

I will continue to remove this article so you might as well give up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Webucation (talk • contribs) 02:02, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

Oh, "Raw Story" is what you meant on my talk page? I didn't know what you were talking about when you typed "Roaw Story." I'm not concerned with that, I'm concerned with your insistence on changing "theorist" to "realist" and moving this article into a non-existant category as a result. If you do "continue to remove this article" then you will be violating WP:3RR (as I've already noted on your talk page), and you could be blocked as a result. Please keep this in mind. janejellyroll 02:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

May a neutral observer point out that it is not worth fighting about words. It is better to have the article just explain his theories, and the readers will be able to decide which of the two categories he belongs in. WP does not make judgements of which ones are likely or not. DGG 23:47, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you in principle that it is not worth fighting about words. However the (now-deleted) "conspiracy realist" article and category was an attempt by this editor to create a POV fork and group together those who s/he felt based their ideas on "facts," not "baseless theories." It was a violation of WP:NPOV. I would have no problem with the words "conspiracy theorist" being removed from the article altogether, I just opposed replacing it with "conspiracy realist." janejellyroll 00:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] COI

Its time the obvious POV of the article and COI got fixed. I have no particular interest in the subject of the article , but I do have an interest about maintaining & increasing the quality of WP articles. A proportionate article is the basis concept of NPOV. The first step will be to remove the video covers, which is straight out advertising. The second will be to get some third party comments in, including critical ones. DGG 06:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

If you remove his films, then all disocgraphies should be taken down from music pages. This article is being treated unfairly. - SeriousCat 23:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

People have been removing the word "documentary" from the intro. I placed it there for clarity, and I believe removing it effectvely "pushes" an Anti-Jones point of view. This page is being treated unfairly and it needs to stop. - SeriousCat 23:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Under the circumstances, we need a WP:RS calling them "documentary"(ies). If you can do that, I'll defend the inclusion of the term. (Also under the circumstances, may I suggest that you place the source here on the talk page, so that I can re-insert "documentary", rather than your risking WP:3RR.) — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 23:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Well now, we wouldn't want things to get too heated up -- they might go "Nuclear".  MortonDevonshire  Yo  · 23:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to make more than three reverts. - SeriousCat 00:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, are other documentary filmakers requaired have mainstream scources calling them "documentary"(ies) in order to have the term included in the articles about them? I may be new here, but this seems highly irregular. - SeriousCat 01:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

When a person says he gets his information by reading the secret web sites of the immortal Moloch-worshipping Illuminati, then it would be advisable to get pretty solid external verification that he is indeed attempting to document reality. As opposed to, say, making up stories for a quick buck. Google for some more of the things Mr. Jones has "documented" for our education. Weregerbil 12:09, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Perry Logan isn't a great source hes been know to take things way out of context. anonymous —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.176.25.1 (talk) 06:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC).

Hear and see Alex Jones himself describe the secret policy documents of the immortal UN globalist Illuminati, detailing the currently ongoing program to exterminate 80% of world population. "Documentary?" Please... Weregerbil 09:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

So I guess you think there isn't flouride in the water either? I give up. Jones isn't going to get a fair article. - SeriousCat 01:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

[edit] Daily Vandalism

This article needs protection. I am concerned as much of the vandalism seems to go unattended. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.69.23.174 (talk) 07:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

You should have reverted, rather than trying to undo each individual vandalism edit. It was difficult to determine whether you had realy been reverting vandalism or adding new vandalism while reverting some of the other vandalism. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 14:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Conspiracy Theorist"?

Why "Conspiracy Theorist"? Is George w. Bush called a "Conspiracy Theorist" because of his absolutely unproven, undocumented and unrealistic 9/11 conspiracy theory? No. Is the Northwoods Document "conspiracy Theory"? No, it is proven Conspiracy Fact.

BJ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bjornyvan (talk • contribs) 20:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Quotes section needs work.

Needs citations. Or better yet, outright deletion. Manic Hispanic 03:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia?????

I heard on His show a few weeks ago that He almost lost his index finger. He almost cut all the way off. I cant recall though if it was the left or right although I think it was the right. So anyway Im thinking maybe we could put that in the article as trivia or as a fact.216.211.51.150 11:16, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

How Unbelievably irrelevant. Lets also list his favorite color and belt-shirt combo while we're at it. Robbh66 04:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Views

Is this really a good introduction for a biography? I think there should be something about what his recent activities are, his claims to fame, what he is praised for and what he is shunned for etc.. At present, this article presents some of his seemingly most extreme theories (if they are actually his theories, I don't know) as a guide to the man, which is very misleading if you are trying to find out what people in most cases mean when referring to him. The section on his views should mention his emphasis on examples of historic falsifications of data, which are not controversial anymore (eg. the pretext for the Vietnam War), and his scepticism towards the nature of present day administrated mass media. Although I agree that some mention should also be made about his more "far out" claims, the specific examples given are not very informative. 84.210.30.185 03:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Statements further down the page (in the comments about his movies) says that he believes "that all major 20th and 21st century terrorist attacks were orchestrated by governments". That sounds pretty far out, is that accurate? It sounds very strange to me that he would dismiss the IRA, ETA, Hezbollah and so on like that, even if he doesn't attribute all, or even most, terrorist attacks to such organisations. In any case, this should be moved to the "Views" section, or rewritten, as it is a poor movie description. 84.210.30.185 03:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Let me also urge you all to remember that this page will, conspiracy or not (I believe not), be targeted not only by people with mental problems and Bush haters or lovers, but also by professional PR companies, as this guy does attack political campaigns and big businesses. PR companies are big business (I even have a friend that works for one), and to try and sway public opinion is what they do. Wikipedia is an obvious target for PR. 84.210.30.185 03:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)