Talk:Alder

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Most of the text transferred to the newly made Black alder page, as it referred to that species in particular, rather than the genus as a whole MPF 18:51, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Query for Pollinator - can you check the identity of the photo please? - it looks like a Betula (birch) to me, judging by the female catkins MPF 18:05, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I think it's Alnus but I'm not expert enough to be confident. The reasons: 1. Betula nigra is common in this area and well known to me as a tree with peeling bark. I'm pretty sure I would recognize it by the bark. 2. These were all shrubs growing along the edge of a pond with smooth bark. No trees. 3. I've been looking for photos of the bark of other Betula species (which are not so common around here) and it is inconclusive. The date of the photos was March 23, so it's a very early bloom.

If it would help any, I would be glad to e-mail you a higher resolution photo, and another which shows the bark much clearer. The bark is smooth reddish brown with large white lenticels. I could also return to the site and get samples for more positive ID. It's not too far from here.

Thanks for your work on all these species. I have lots of photos, but little time to research them out.... Pollinator 23:28, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Hi Pollinator, Thanks; a hi-res pic would help. Also worth checking the net for other pics; the UConn site usually has some good pics (tho' surprisingly not for Alnus): B for Betula. Betula nigra is very variable in bark texture, young ones can be smooth; otherwise B. alleghaniensis (B. lutea) also has smooth bark. Regards, Michael MPF 23:57, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

MPF, did you get the hi-res photos? My investigations have me leaning to your POV. I also have another photo, taken earlier in the season, that I think now is more likely to be the tag alder. Should I post this here?

Hi Pollinator, Thanks; the new pic is much better! - MPF 15:48, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

There appears to be some confusion regarding Frankiella. Some references (such as [1]) have Frankiella as a synonym of Frankia. According to NCBI , however, ([2]) Frankia and Frankiella are different organisms (the first is an actinomycete (despite the "-mycete" ending, it's a bacterium, not a fungus); the second is a eukaryote variously classified as a fungus or a protist.).

I don't know about Frankiella, but it seems clear by a Google search (see [3] for instance) that Frankia is present in the root nodules of Alnus spp.. Moreover to my knowledge only some prokaryotes can directly fix atmospheric nitrogen, so I would think that Frankia not Frankiella is the nitrogen-fixing symbiont of the root nodules.

I think therefore that Frankia belongs in the article. Comments ?

Tjunier 16:55, 2004 Feb 24 (UTC)