Talk:Al Leong

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Contents

[edit] Initial notes

The funny thing about the Fametracker web site is that I created the Photoshopped image they use for my (long since defunct) Golden Horde: The Al Leong Fan Club web site. I don't begrudge them using it, of course: I'm glad someone out there is paying Al the respect he deserves.

I have put all of the filmographic data I have online. Note: some of this is written tongue-in-cheek, and may need a bit of revision to be appropriate for an encyclopedia entry. There are a few gaps. Maybe someone can fill those in. My next step is to go through and Wiki-link the more interesting cross-references (e.g., Andy Sidaris, Rambo, Genghis Khan). Anyone who would like to help with that has my blessing. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 02:49, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

This article fails to explicitly point out a very important detail: Al Leong's Bacon number is 1! (71.233.165.69 05:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Cleanup?

This article has been tagged for "cleanup", but no mention of what may be needed has been discussed. Let's discuss the article before we go tagging it with things. If the article needs changes, what are those changes? -- BBlackmoor (talk), 2006-01-17 T 19:22 Z

For starters, the tone of most of the filmography is waaay too informal and very unencyclopedic. dfg 21:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
This isn't an encyclopedia: it doesn't have fact-checking or a real editor. Real encyclopedias don't let any moron edit any article they want. This is a glorified blog, not an encyclopedia. That being said, if you want to re-write some entries to make the prose tighter, be my guest. I said when I posted all that stuff that I knew it needed work. -- BBlackmoor (talk), 2006-03-11 T 22:35 Z
I checked your userpage, and knowing that you're familiar with Wikipedia saves me some typing-of-the-obvious. So lemme cut to the chase and ask, if you're so worked up about how unprofessional this project is, why are you getting offended about someone stating the obvious in that "Way to go, Al!" doesn't belong in an entry? Why not create a private webpage where you can write all the slavering fanboy prose you want? You burned out on WP, fine, you're not alone, but WP isn't yours exclusively and you don't have the right to subvert the last remaining articles in which you have interest.
One solution to "improving" this article's POV and unencyclopedic violations would be to remove all the offending sections until someone comes up with something better. That has the potential to start an edit war, and I read that you're tired of that kind of bs, and I have no interest in it either. Instead of that, I'll keep it confined to this talk page, and hope that another editor comes along and realizes that work needs to be done here. Lots of it. dfg 16:10, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
As I said, if you want to re-write some entries to make them cleaner and less informal, be my guest. -- BBlackmoor (talk), 2006-03-23 T 04:21 Z
I removed the clean up tag. As long as this page stays in its current incarnation without irrelevant masses of information, I don't think it warrants any more attention. Vesperholly 08:45, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tables

I can't for the life of me figure out why those first few tables don't work and the rest of them do. I've gone over it with a fine-toothed comb and I can't find any difference that would account for it. Oh well... Felicity4711 22:26, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Adding a left brace at the beginning of the first table seems to help, but then the table is way too wide and for some reason everything from Black Rain onward is boldfaced, if I do that. Adding a space after the final pipe in a table seems to help, too, but not enough. I'm stumped. I guess I'll RTFM -- that is, when I have time. Right now I have to go to work. Felicity4711 22:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Don't go replacing normal apostrophes and quotation marks with HTML tags. I've changed them back. As for the table thing, I reverted it to the version which was legible, and added the They Live entry that you contributed (good entry, too -- I had no idea he was in that). -- BBlackmoor (talk), 2006-01-26 T 02:46 Z

[edit] Good article

Hi,

The GA tag was added to this article without going through the nomination process. It has now been removed, please don't re-add it without nominating the article at this page.

Thanks,

Cedars 13:07, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article

This article offends my eyes. I'm not good at sounding serious, so someone please fix this. To whoever wrote the article this way, fall in a well and stay forgotten. Ace ofspade 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Why is language so informal? ' battling yellow turbans (and winning!) in the alleyway' '(Hey, it's an impressive scream.)'. 14:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Because that is how it was originally written. Feel free to re-write some entries to make them cleaner and less informal. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 23:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Well...

Okay, cute and clever and excellent for a blog sort of thing, but not for an encyclopedia. I dunno if User:Bblackmoor is still reading this at all, but perhaps I could move whatever scant dialogue he had in films to wikiquotes? I'll remove the synopsis of the films and instead make a filmography section. Basically I'm asking for a radical reduction. Sorry. Tamarkot 19:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to delete anything that is not verifiable. Feel free to rephrase anything that is not NPOV. Feel free to delete anything that isn't notable and relevant to this article. However, Leong's dialogue is notable, because it is one of the distinguishing characteristics of his roles -- his dialogue, or lack thereof, is part of what makes Leong himself notable. Removing Leong's dialogue from the article would be like removing the paintings from the article on Vincent van Gogh -- it would eliminate a major portion of what makes the article relevant to its subject. As for removing the synopses, that would be acceptable as long as the verifiable information contained in them is moved to another Wikipedia article (one for each film, presumably). However, be aware that since one of Leong's signature attributes is that he is a bit player, Leong's appearance in a film might not be notable in an article devoted to that film, while it is notable in an article devoted to Leong himself. Ergo, much of what is currently contained in the film synopses may be notable only within the context of this article -- and thus, should stay in this article. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 04:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good work!

Good work by user:ONUnicorn and user:Ace ofspade on the article. Thanks. Your efforts are greatly apppreciated. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 04:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Excellent work by user:PlatinumX and user:Gator MacReady. Your efforts are appreciated. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 00:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Good work by user:Sumahoy. Precise categories are a joy to behold. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2006-12-28 20:03Z

[edit] Wholesale deletion of article content by AspiraDude

user:AspiraDude deleted most of the article's content. I would not characterize this as vandalism, per se, but at the very least it was not the result of discussion and consensus, nor was any valid reason given for the deletion of the article's content. I have therefore reverted AspiraDude's changes. Feel free to delete anything that is not verifiable. Feel free to rephrase anything that is not NPOV. Feel free to delete anything that isn't notable and relevant to this article. Feel free to discuss anything else. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 04:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but that is WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION. ITA with dfg in the Cleanup section. That depth of information simply does not belong on Wikipedia. See Wikipedia:Article_size. I'll "feel free" to delete what I think is inappropriate for Wikipedia, not the fans of Al Leong, thanks. If you think people care to know all that information about Al Leong, create a website and link to it from here. Don't shove his entire 20-year career down our collective throats. Vesperholly 08:27, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
You do not think Wikipedia is an appropriate place for detailed, verifiable, NPOV information? I will respectfully agree to disagree. As for "shoving something down your throat", no one is forcing you to read an article in which you clearly have no interest. There are much longer articles on Wikipedia than this one, which do not interest me. Should I go and delete large portions of them for that reason? I think not. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 16:02, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I have an interest in relevant information. Entire lists of dialogue and descriptions of characters which don't even have names are completely irrelevant and make this article very difficult to read. A minor character actor like Leong does not justify a page that is the same length as Steven Spielberg's article. I'm interested in why you think Leong's article should be as long as Spielberg's. Perhaps you can elucidate me. Vesperholly 21:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
There is no need to defend this article's length in comparison to the length of any other Wikipedia article: that is not a relevant concern. However, if you would like work on Spielberg's article to make it longer, then of course you should feel free to do so. Incidentally, "elucidate" does not mean what you appear to think it means. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 15:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I enjoyed reading this article. Seeing every death of a career villain listed in a row is a kick, and a chart like the one on this page would fit in very well on a "bad movies" site. However, it doesn't really belong on Wikipedia, even if it's verifiable, interesting, and funny. It's not about length so much as whether the content is encyclopedic or not. I have no problem with the Al Leong article being as long or longer than Steven Spielberg's, but if the content is a chart of funny quotes, lengthy descriptions of roles, and causes of death, then it really belongs on a humor/movie buff site rather than an encyclopedia. Snurks T C 21:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. Providing a comprehensive reference is an encyclopedia's raison d'etre. There is no precedent, as far as I know, for excluding verifiable information from Wikipedia simply because the topic is related to pop culture. I could be mistaken; if so, please provide a reference so that I may correct my error. -- BBlackmoor (talk) 00:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. That suggests to me that the inclusion of minutae is inappropriate, and best left to a fan site. Pruning, to the extent of just listing the filmography, and a section higlighting the bit part nature of his roles would seem to be a satisfactory resolution. -- Princess Tiswas 18:40, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
"Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" does not appear to apply to this article. Other than the "plot summary" example, the examples given in that section generally have to do with "how to" type subjects. And while this article does contain (very abbreviated) plot information, it is used here "as an aspect of a larger topic". -- BBlackmoor (talk) 17:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
The list is indiscriminate, in that it makes no attempt to put the filmography into any context of notability. This goes against the letter of wikipedia, and perhaps, more importantly, against the spirit. The inclusion of a synopsis for each film is redundant - this is covered in the the entry for each film (where there is one). I've cleaned up the section inline with my previous suggestion :: Princess Tiswas 19:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Leong's filmography is not indiscriminate -- the discriminating factor is that it's a list of films in which he has appeared. Nor are the synopses of the films redundant with the listings for the films themselves: as has already been pointed out, one of the earmarks of Leong's appearances is that he plays minor characters who nearly always die, and who would ordinarily not even be mentioned in a film's conventional synopsis. The content you deleted is relevant to this article, the subject of the article is notable, and the content itself is written from a neutral point of view (although of course it can be improved), it is verifiable, and it is not original research. That you do not find the subject of the article interesting has absolutely no bearing, and that is not sufficient reason to go deleting half of it. I have reverted your ill-considered and wholly unnecessary deletions. -- -- BBlackmoor (talk) 05:03, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I've reverted the changes back to the previous version, for the very reasons given above. The inclusion of pedantic minutae to illustrate a point merely adds bloat. It's apparent that you have an issue with wikipedia in general, inasmuch as can be garnered from your user page, and this article has become your own private sandbox. I suggest this article be tagged for review by a wider audience. - Tiswas(t/c) 16:56, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
"I've reverted the changes back to the previous version, for the very reasons given above." Reverted back. The arguments to which you refer have been addressed. If you have anything new to add to the discussion, please do so here before unilaterally deleting valid, verifiable, relevant neutral content. -- -- BBlackmoor (talk) 15:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Asian American

I have reverted Mr Tan's edit, where he replaced the "Asian-American Actor" category with "Chinese-American Actor". I reverted it because although Leong looks Asian (and I suppose that's important to some people), we have no evidence or references to verify the assertion that Leong identifies himself as "Chinese-American". Personally, I find the introduction of categories like "Asian-American" and "Chinese-American" offensive and inappropriate. On the one hand, he was born in the USA, and he's a US citizen. That makes him an American. No hyphen. On the other hand, categories like "Asian-American" are meaningless: the vast bulk of the people living in the USA have ancestors from numerous continents. The whole concept of "[whatever]-American" is inane, in my opinion. However, I have simply reverted the category instead of deleting it, because I know I am outnumbered by those who think such a category is relevant. -- -- BBlackmoor (talk) 20:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I reverted the edit by HongQiGong for the same reason. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-02-04 08:28Z

I find it really rather strange that it should be "offensive" to point out that someone is Asian American or Chinese American, as if it should be shameful to be Asian or Chinese in the US or something. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 08:46, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Racism is shameful. An American is an American. However, if you cite a source that verifies that Leong identifies himself as "Chinese American", then that assertion can stay in the article. Until then, it does not belong in the article. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-02-04 18:33Z

[edit] Small changes made

I know that Bblackmoor cares deeply about this article, but in the process of adding wikilinks, I had to change some of the more tongue-in-cheek and colloquial turns of phrase. Wikipedia is actually an encyclopedia and should be written as such, but the language had to be slightly cleaned up, while I left the format and spirit of the article intact. JesseRafe 23:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

As I said back in 2005, "some of this is written tongue-in-cheek, and may need a bit of revision to be appropriate for an encyclopedia entry." I think you have done excellent work. Well done. -- BBlackmoor (talk) • 2007-01-08 03:55Z
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