Talk:Al Capone

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Contents

[edit] Article needs work

Al Capone went to Chicago and actually worked for Big Jim THAT RAT Colossimo who was the number one brothel operator in Chicago and quite successful. Torrio was not the leader of what was then Colossimo's operation. Torrio was Colissimo's underling. When Prohibition started, Capone and Torrio tried in vain to get Big Jim into bootlegging. Big Jim was too fat and happy being a night club owner and did not want to "branch out." There were other reasons but my crime books are in storage. Capone and Torrio had had enough and decided that Colossimo was standing in their way of making the really big money in illegal alcohol. They had him killed and took over.

The leaders of the north siders were Dion O'Banion who was killed by the Capones, then Hymie Weiss took over but was also murdered, then Bugs Moran. At some point (I think between O'Banion and Weiss) there was a guy named "Schemer" Drucci, but I can't remember for sure where he fits in. This article needs work, but I don't have the time and all my references are in storage. Oakridgetn1947 02:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

This article does need at least some mention of the Colossimo gang. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.96.95.186 (talk • contribs).
Would be interested in mention of his son who, being born in 1918, could actually still be alive. Some info such as arrest for shoplifting in 1960s and name change exists, but not death date. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.243.128.201 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Pronunciation of Capone

There is some indication that the 'e' was pronounced in Capone's name, making it rhyme with the word 'phoney'.

[edit] Capone's Sicilian background

If both Capone's parents were from Campania i.e. Naples, then how was he "a Sicilian born in New York"? Arthur Holland

Maybe it was just a figure of speech? Claiming Sicilian heritage for a mobster shouldn't be so rare I guess. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.56.238.110 (talk • contribs).
  • Capone was a Neopolitan, although news reports often refered to him as a Sicilian. In fact, his attempts to takeover Chicago's Unione Siciliane would lead to violent gang wars with Sicilian mobsters such as the Gennas. MadMax 00:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] St Valentine's day

"he orchestrated seventy-one of the most notorious gangland killings of the century, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. " - how was it 71 killings? the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. article only says 7. Rich Farmbrough 21:38, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I think 71 is a bit high. Discounting his James Street Gang (Five Points Gang) days, beginning with Jim Colosimo in 1920 and the St. Valentine's Day Massacre in 1929 (differentiating between planned and actual involvement) might be more around ten. Unfortunately what he was suspected of planning and actually connected to are two different things. MadMax 20:17, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Capone was living lavishly in Palm Beach, and assigned one of his top associates "Machine Gun" McGurn to mastermind the hit. McGurn had one of his bootleggers lure members of the Moran gang into a garage to buy liquor at an unreasonably cheap price. The deal was made and the delivery was scheduled to take place on Valentines Day. McGurn and his men awaited them in stolen police uniforms. When they arrived, McGurn's gang pretended to be police making a bust, and ordered all of Moran's men to stand facing the wall. Thinking that they had just been caught by police, seven members of the Moran gang turned to the wall awaiting arrest. McGurn and his men opened fire with machine guns, fatally killing the gangsters. Bugs, who saw the police car before stopping and thought it was a raid, fled the scene. Capone was credited with what would be deemed one of the most famous mass murders in American history, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. Valentine's Day Massacre information provided by: http://www.alcatrazhistory.com/cap1.htm (for Al Capone information) alcatrazhistory.com (main)

[edit] Inconsistencies

The Ness article states that Capone was charged with 22 violations rather than the 23 mentioned here. Also, it says that he was sentenced to 11 years instead of 10. Can someone check which of these is correct?

Laurence Bergreen in his biography, "Capone: The Man & The Era" gives 22 counts and explains that Capone had to serve 10 years in federal prison plus one year in county prison (which he served first) - which equals 11 years total. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 140.247.155.203 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Untouchables

The film "The Untouchables" claims at the end that his sentence was 11 years. Perhaps not the best of sources, but I thought I'd mention it..... Adrian Baker 23:24, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Geraldo and the vault

Someone should add something about Geraldo opening his vault. 68.143.166.174 21:19, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

It could be added, but would mostly be insignificant because the vault was empty. An empty piece of property really has no place on Wikipedia. However, this piece of information could be added in a trivia section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jgarrison (talk • contribs).

[edit] Capone's illness

I read "somewhere" that Capone had a phobia about medical needles - and so refused treatment for his syphilis. Any comments?

  • Yeah, Capone picked up syphillis before penicillin was invented. I have read that treatment for that disease was and ordeal but did not include any injections. But, of course, I can't add any references, so my comment stays on the discussion page. I think treatment included small doses of arsenic. Oakridgetn1947 02:25, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, you are both right in a way. Capone did dislike needles. When he first went to prison, he was given a thorough medical examination. When the doctors diagnosed Capone with syphillis, he told them that it had been cured and that a spinal tap to determine if he was still infected, (which involved needles), was unnessecary. Once Penicillin was discovered, he took the treatment one hundred percent willingly, (It didn't involve needles). Capone was fully treated of the disease in 1942, but by then he had already suffered severe brain damage.
In the book I read on Capone. "Al Capone - The Life and Times" I read that his own personal physician came to Al Capone and told him a woman who Al had had relations with had recently been treated for syphillis. Al refused the origianl treatment his doctor recommended for him which later caused the complications. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.39.163.114 (talk • contribs).

my health teacher told us he got syphilis in prison so I wanted to know if that was true.


[edit] Children

"The couple had 8 sons and 2 daughters" - should make it clear that this refers to AC's parents (g).

Done. Arx Fortis 03:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Error in Place of Birth

Capone was born in Brooklyn, NYC to Neapolitan parents. He was the second Capone child to be born in America.

Al Capone - Made In America

[edit] The Night Chicago Died

In the 1970s there was a song by Paper Lace recounting an open rebellion by Capone's gang against the police, resulting in the death of "about a hundred cops". Are there anecdotes to support this? j/w - knoodelhed 08:11, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I read that that song was a made-up story. Capone was involved in a lot of gunfights but they mostly were between several gangs and there have never been that many victims all at once. --Crux 11:49, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Completely made up. And the east side of Chicago is commonly known as Lake Michigan.
It could be a reference to the 1924 Chicago Primary Elections, although few police were even injured, however Frank Capone was killed by police during the incident. It's extremly rare for mobsters, even Prohibition gangsters, to become involved in gunfights with police. That was more the style from the days of the Gangs of New York era. MadMax 20:17, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] False statement

I'm annoyed that someone added the comment that he stabbed 70 people in New Orleans. Destroying Wiki's credibility is easy and unnecessary. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.252.101.195 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Cleanup

The article does need some major work, I've added a cleanup tag. I will do some work on formatting and wikification, but I don't have the history knowledge necessary to update all the facts. Aces & Eights 16:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

update

  • The article was reverted and is in good condition now, cleanup tag removed. Aces & Eights 21:05, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italian-American

Why is Capone's Italian ancestry being removed from this article? --Stlemur 00:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Omerta! Ghosts&empties 17:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed this again per WP:MOSBIO item #3, please read, thanks--Tom 16:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

"Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." I would argue that it is relevant to Capone's notability in that the Italian presence in organized crime in the US is notable. It could even be argued that by not noting it we make the implicit assumption that all gangsters are Italian unless stated otherwise. --Stlemur 16:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm possibly with you on the first argument, but the second argument seems to be a bit of a leap. Anyways, I'm of the opinion that unless its really really really important to mention ethnicity in the HEADER/first sentence, it should be left out. This is a standardization that seems to serve wikipedia well. Anyways,--Tom 18:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
As a follow up, none of the other articles about Italian-American mobsters contains Italian-American in the header.--Tom 20:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baseball bat bit

User talk:EdwardGI see what you mean about how the baseball bat bit is meaningful for character development, but I deleted it for two reasons:

  • there are at least 3 versions of who was doing the beating - or it may be completely myth
  • it didn't really change the arc of Capone's career

If you want to treat this incident in an encyclopedic way, you need to consider and reference several sources. As is, the explanation differs from other accounts of the same incident in Wikipedia (See John Scalise).

I hate to be the weenie that nags "More references!", "Explain other possible explantions!", but when it comes to Capone, there's often more myth than fact, as Geraldo learned the hard way. Ghosts&empties 17:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The NYTimes obituary I just added (in External Links) carries a paragraph about AC using the bat on two colleagues at a banquet. I assume it's there because it's true. 68.228.70.223 11:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Capone links to the BBB

I heard that Capone had a lot to do with the very beginings of the BBB. Is there any truth to that, and where can I find it.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.204.201.139 (talk • contribs).

[edit] "These guys in Pittsburgh"

Sam Colissimo, the one killed by Capone to take power in Chicago, had a nephew, Frank Colissimo, who died in the late 1990s in Pittsburgh. He was a heroin addict and died of a methadone overdose. His name was never mentioned, but he sold his cocaine to Henry Hill and ran Pittsburgh's Northside mafia in the decline of the Montemurro and Costa families. This is detailed in the film Goodfellas. Mortimer elias the 33rd 03:26, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The True Source of the Slash on Scarface's face

According to the NY Times Obit I just added to External Links, the slashes came when he was bullying a Sicilian. AC was "barely out of his teens". Fighting in a barber shop, the Sicilian backed AC into a corner and slashed his face with a razor. The article on Wiki says he was cut by a brother who's sister AC was hassling. (Capone had made a bold move on Gallucio's sister. Gallucio deeply slashed Capone's left cheek with a switchblade.) Not sure where to turn for verifiable truth. 68.228.70.223 11:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there's any verifiable truth to be found, just items generally accepted as fact. When AC was a kid, he wasn't notable and little data was accumulated on him outside of police records. I think what was in the NYT obit should be in this article, though, IMHO that's relatively speaking, a good source, the reporters involved probably would have had access to police recortds and sources, and known the NY crime scene pretty well. Tubezone 16:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date/time of birth.

I don't know where this time has come from but is it even convention to put the time of birth in a profile. I corrected the wikitext error. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheChard (talk • contribs).

[edit] Help

I live in Clementon, New Jersey (thats in Camden County) and pretty much everyone knows about this 'hidden mansion' of his but I have never seen it... is it true?

[edit] The picture with Al Capone's "Castle"

The picture is really inadequate with Wikipedia's standards. I don't think uploading pictures with ourselves next to the object of the article is suitable. This is a tourist's picture, and the comment " I think he called himself "Southside". Highly recommend him!" breaks all Wikipedia standards and rules —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.127.186.3 (talk) 22:02, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Absolute Garbage

"Reassigned to mopping up the prison bathhouse, he was nicknamed the "wop with the mop" by inmates. [citation needed] He was later stabbed in the back by Lucas, who was sentenced to solitary confinement in "the Hole". Capone was hospitalized for a week. He was later harassed further and unsuccessful attempts on his life were made throughout his prison sentence, including spiking his coffee with lye and attacking him as he was walking towards the dentist's office.[citation needed] He remained under protection from several inmates (possibly due to payoffs by the Chicago Outfit)."

"Capone's mental state began to deteriorate. Amongst other things, he would repeatedly make his bed and then undo it for hours.[citation needed] At times, Capone refused to leave his cell at all, crouching in a corner and talking to himself in Italian or, according to some, complete gibberish.[citation needed] He began telling people that he was being haunted by the ghost of James Clark, a victim in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre.[citation needed] Paranormal investigators were even sent in to observe him and his surroundings, though they ultimately decided that Capone was simply mentally unwell.[citation needed]"

I'm giving this 24 hours to be heavily sighted or I will delete every word of it. This is complete bullshit, poorly written, and insulting to the intelligence of the reader. It's garbage like this that proves how an open-access encyclopedia can never be a quality source of reference material (no matter how "popular" it is). Aren't there supposed to be people monitoring the content of these articles? Unbelievable... --JMH

So, remove it. But tone down the rhetoric! Bulbous 05:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
  • The first half regarding Capone's "wop with the mop" nickname and subsequent feud with Lucas is cited in Carl Sifakis's The Mafia Encyclopedia and supported by Robert J. Schoenberg's Mr. Capone: The World of Al Capone. As for the second half, neither reference goes into detail over Capone's later demesia however the claim he had been haunted by James Clark's ghost has in appeared on several paranormal and "ghost hunter" type websites (see [1], [2]). This claim also appears in Ursula Bielski's More Chicago Haunts: Scenes from Myth and Memory. MadMax 20:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Birthplace

I read somewhere that he was born in Italy. Any have the answer? ---FRAN 5:45 pm

  • Although news accounts of period often reported Capone's birthplace as Sicily or Naples, Capone himself adamantly claimed to have been born in Brooklyn. The two major biographies, namely Luciano J. Iorizzo's Al Capone: A Biography and John Kobler's Capone: The Life and World of Al Capone, both claim his birthplace as Brooklyn, New York. MadMax 23:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PoV

Why the huge section detailing Capone being beloved by Chicago's poor? Evidence? He didn't become a pariah only after the St. Valentine's Day massacre. Anyone want to make an argument why any of this PoV and unsupported material should remain? --Patchyreynolds 17:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Charlie Parker and Bing Crosby

His night club, the Cotton Club, became a hot-spot for new acts such as Charlie Parker and Bing Crosby.

This statement is very interesting. In the paragraph, the writer is discussing Capone's nightclub-owning activities in 1920s Chicago. Charlie Parker was born in 1920. He would have been eight at the time of the St. Valentine's Day Massacre (14 Feb. 1929). Charlie Parker was precocious, a genius, and died too young, but he wasn't that precocious.

Sincerely, maccb

I'm assuming the writer may have meant that Charlie Parker and Bing Crosby would later play at the club (the phrase "new acts" being a bit misleading), however I believe both men first made their careers at New York's Cotton Club as there were several clubs using the same name during the era. MadMax 23:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
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