Talk:Agent of influence

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[edit] Citation?

TDC, what is you citation for this? This is not my understanding of the term. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:16, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Thats a good question. My definition is a compilation of what I have read over the years, and this from Global Security on Soviet disinformation campaigns. What is your understanding of the term? TDC 17:11, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

I have added balance to the definition.--Cberlet 17:40, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

how can you add balance to the definition with sources that do not address it?TDC 17:49, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Primary source claim: What is the source that states Chambers & Bentley refered to White as an "agent of influence", or was this claim assigned by later authors (which I believe can be proven). "Agent of influence" is, as I understand, is a CIA & American invention, and not used or referred to in either KGB (and its predecessor organizations) or GRU. Thank you. nobs 18:23, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Soviet intelligence agencies have historically used "access agents", which is somewhat analagous in meaning, but in practice is very different. nobs 18:31, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Cberlet, you recent edits are leading me to beleive that you do not even beleive in the idea of an "agent of influence". The KGB’s section A had literally hundreds of contacts in the media and governments who they funneled falsified documents through. Service A concocted the story that the AIDS virus had been developed as a biological weapon by the Pentagon at Fort Detrick. and was used in experiments on prisoners., This gem first appeared in the Times of India, through a KGB “agent of influence”. Philip Agee's book, "Inside the Company," was ghost written by Section A and the Cuban DGI. The International Association of Democratic Lawyers let lose a story about Americans kidnapping or adopting children from Latin America and using their body parts in organ transplants, this too was done under the direction of Serve A. TDC 20:25, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

I cited a scholar writing for the CIA. The cite is accurate. I do not have to explain how the scholar wrote the text. I merely have to cite it accurately and show it is related to the topic, which it clearly is. It is a constructive edit.--Cberlet 21:34, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

It is a good source; the meaning of the term may be somewhat out of context, but the portions relating to the term are a valid inclusion. The references to White, espionage, etc. are somewhat extraneous to the article though. nobs 22:28, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Here's the problem: "Agent of influence" has had an evolving meaning. Hook, I do not believe is quoting Chambers & Bentley, he is quoting newspapers he read at the time. The term "agent of influence" came into existence after the National Security Act of 1947 and was popularized in government and among the public as they sought to understand all the espionage revelations of the era. Neither Soviet intelligence, nor the CPUSA secret apparatus, ever used the term (likewise the term "sub-agent" appeared in the mid-fifties, out of popular media & counterintelligence files, and created problems in prosecutions, because the term was not used the CPUSA secret apparatus). Hook is quoting a paraphrase he read in the newspapers of Bentley speaking this,

"I would say our two best ones were Harry Dexter White and Lauchlin Currie. They had an immense amount of influence and knew people, and their word would be accepted when they recommended someone.",

hence the term "agent of influence" was born. The CIA has since adopted what is essentially an American Counterintelligence term, and made it part of their doctrine in recruitment. An "agent of influence" in modern CIA parlance, is an operative who stands between the Case Officer and the intelligence target, hoping to gain or use influence. CIA relies on them because CIA has historically met with dismal failure penetrating target organizations. So it has had to rely on "agents of influence" to influence its targets. This is a very different meaning than what was used in educating the Amercian public about counterintelligence in the late 1940s and 1950s. Here is were it is problematic to you, my friend Mr. Cberlet, this is not a game of partisan tit-for-tat. Your use of that reference here in the long run will not stand up, because the real definition of the term needs to be written. In seeking evidence which appears to defend personages you feel sentimental about, if you were to insist on this meaning and definition, it won't help the ghost of your client in this case,

"adviser to Roosevelt, Harry Hopkins, who was, now we know, was an agent of influence." [1]

What he means to say is, Hopkins stood between the Case Officer and the intended target, i.e. Roosevelt, and by the CIA definition, Hopkins was cooperating. It is my belief that FDR was not the intended target, but if the idea is confuse the facts, we may be off on the right foot. I would caution, step back and look at the larger picture. nobs 01:04, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Original research has no place in this discussion or on the topic page.--Cberlet 01:30, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

As I said, your definition in the long run will not stand up, because the real definition will be written with the appropriate sourcing. Hasty google searches for tidbits you hope make some point, complete with extraneous references, are a waste of time. Again, I would ask for your help and cooperation, if you would look at the larger picture Senator Moynihan has discussed in his book, it may save everybody time. nobs 02:01, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed Section

Cberlet, I fail to see how the inclusion of the removed text is any kind of dommentary on the term agent of influence, its a mildly critical book review of "Treasonable Doubt" and not a critique on the term "agent of influence". As such, I have removed it. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 15:12, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The first two lines.

How can you include two definitions in the first paragraph that are entirely contradictory in nature?

Is the person knowing and conciously serving a foreign government OR an unwitting dupe?

If it is both than the initial sentence must be reworked so that both definitions can be used else you fold in the dupe with the active agent and the whole thing becomes another smear technique. --Ken 22:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC)